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The Bush Proposal (Interesting article by Linda Chavez on the Immigration Proposal)
Town Hall ^ | Jan 8, 2004 | Linda Chavez

Posted on 01/08/2004 8:03:21 AM PST by PhiKapMom

The Bush proposal

Linda Chavez

January 8, 2004

President Bush announced a sweeping new immigration reform proposal this week that could become a hot-button issue in the November election. For months, insiders have hinted that the president would propose a new guest worker program aimed at allowing more foreign workers into the country on a temporary basis. Widely favored by the American business community, a guest worker program would allow employers to fill jobs in industries that routinely experience shortages of workers willing to do the often difficult, dangerous jobs Americans shun -- at least at wages that allow employers to remain in business.

But the guest worker provisions won't be the most controversial part of the administration's new proposal. Although some groups that want to limit immigration altogether -- such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) -- oppose guest worker plans, even such staunch restrictionists as Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) are on record supporting the idea of guest workers. The real battle will be over what to do with those millions of illegal aliens who are already here.

Some 8-12 million illegal aliens reside in the United States now -- up three- or four-fold from a decade ago. An estimated 60 percent of these are from Mexico alone, and it is no accident that the Bush plan was announced in anticipation of the president's meeting with his Mexican counterpart, President Vicente Fox, next week. The White House announced less than a week before the Fox meeting that millions of illegal aliens from Mexico and elsewhere will be allowed, over time, to earn legal status in the U.S., so long as they have been working continuously, paid taxes and not broken other laws. The plan will impose some penalties on these workers -- most likely fines similar to those proposed in legislation sponsored by Republican Representatives Jeff Flake and Jim Kolbe and Senator John McCain, all from Arizona.

These proposals may not offer perfect justice -- who can blame those who resent rewarding "line jumpers" with legal status while millions of other would-be immigrants wait patiently to enter the country legally. But "earned legalization" is probably the best solution to a largely intractable problem. There is no way that the United States can find and deport 8-12 million illegal aliens in this country, and even if we could, we would do more harm than good.

The American economy depends on these workers, who, along with legal immigrants, contributed significantly to the economic boon of the 1990s. If FAIR could wave a magic wand and make these illegal aliens disappear overnight, the rest of us would suffer by having to pay more for everything from the food we put on the table to the houses in which we live. Our office buildings wouldn't get cleaned, our crops wouldn't get picked, our meat wouldn't get processed, nor our tables cleaned when we go out to eat.

Sure, we could double wages to attract American-born workers to some of these jobs, but at even twice the salary it would be difficult to fill the nastiest of these tasks, like processing poultry. But why would we want American workers, who we've spent trillions of dollars educating for 13 or 14 years, on average, to perform jobs that require only the most minimal skills? Even if we got rid of all illegal aliens in the U.S., these jobs would likely go to foreign workers, like it or not.

What sense does it make to insist that we get rid of the very people doing these jobs now in order to make way for other foreign workers to take them under a new guest worker plan? It makes a lot more sense to figure out how to get those illegal aliens already employed at these jobs to come in from the shadows and become part of the legal system. They should pay a penalty for having broken the law in the first place by sneaking into the country or overstaying their visas, but it is better for all of us if they earn their way toward legal status than remain in the illegal netherworld where they now hide.

Linda Chavez is President of the Center for Equal Opportunity, a Townhall.com member organization.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; bushishillary; bushisliberal; buyingvotes; commonsense; culturewar; illegalaliens; illegalmexicans; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration; lindachavez; mexico; nationalsuicide; rewardingcriminals; thirdworldcountry
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To: PhiKapMom
That's why when someone says that Pres Bush alientated his base, you may not be correct as I am part of the base and I will vote for Pres Bush for reelection. I may disagree with some of his proposals, but would never abandon my complete support for his reelection.

If you think that this proposal will not infuriate many NASCAR Dads and Reagan Democrats, you are just wrong.

Rove, the supposed political genius, has made a very serious blunder

101 posted on 01/08/2004 9:29:29 AM PST by WackyKat
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To: PhiKapMom
Linda Chavez? Isn't this the women who had an illegal alien scrubbing her toilets (also not paying ss taxes on this slave labor) and was unable to accept a position in the Bush administration? If so, she has no credibility on this issue.
102 posted on 01/08/2004 9:29:31 AM PST by healey22
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To: futureceo31; hchutch
The biggest problem with all of this as you correctly pointed out is identifying illegal immigrants. How does one know if one is an illegal? Birth certificates might work but doubt a lot of american born citizens know where their birth certificate is.

And it's one of those areas where conservative ideals conflict, bigtime.

We want some form of immigration enforcement, because (a) we respect the rule of law, and (b) we think that completely unrestricted immigration is probably not a good thing.

We do not want an intrusive police state. When you're talking about rounding up 8-10 million people, you're running an extreme risk of creating one.

We do not want to spend gazillions of dollars. When you're talking about rounding up 8-10 million people, it's going to cost at least a few kajillion or so.

The question is how to resolve these conflicts.

103 posted on 01/08/2004 9:29:32 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: Poohbah
Good points, and here is another.... What happens right now when we apprehend an illegal alien? ANSWER: We give them a slap on the wrist and a free ride to the border and repeat as necessary.

All of us here have broken the law at one point or another and what happens? ...... We face justice. If these illegal aliens are made to pay a fine for breaking our immigration laws, it's no different than what happens to any of us who break the law. We are not talking about a felony here, we are talking about aliens working here illegally

104 posted on 01/08/2004 9:30:26 AM PST by MJY1288 (WITHOUT DOUBLE STANDARDS, LIBERALS WOULDN'T HAVE ANY !)
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To: PhiKapMom
I think they are strict in some places and not so strict in others like probably TX, FL and CA. But that is also my point that it seems to be more of a local problem as there are laws against illegal aliens and working illegally...
105 posted on 01/08/2004 9:30:48 AM PST by futureceo31
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To: futureceo31
You got it. That's why these Einsteins who declare Bush unfit for office over this issue crack me up.

They have no idea that in order to implement their vision, we'd need to load them onto trainloads of cattlecars. Can you see the Leftist Presstitutes haing a field day with that picture? Then, you'd really start seeing the Bush-as-Hitler stories all over the place.

106 posted on 01/08/2004 9:30:49 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: moondoggie
There is no way that the United States can find and deport 8-12 million illegal aliens in this country, and even if we could, we would do more harm than good.

She's right. She could have also added that President Bush didn't create this problem so the question to ask is...."Wny are so many Repubs blaming him for it"?

This argument is apparently the most widespread among those supporting this legislation, and it is also the most specious. The supposition is that because we have created a massive illegal immigration problem by not enforcing the laws, we therefore have no alternative but to "fuggedaboutit." The argument's also predicated on an emotional appeal: all those who oppose amnesty are therefore advocating massive deportation.

Both of these arguments are false. In the first case, we are abdicating responsibility for a massive problem because our lawmakers do not have the political will to fix it, not because it's unfixable. In the second case, even immigration reform advocates such as Tancredo are not advocating massive deportation, but rather an orderly procedure that requires immigrants to qualify, individually, for time-limited work visas, based on criteria other than an employer's need for cheap labor. Certainly, this will take time and massive effort -- but, contrary to our massive efforts on the war on terror, our space exploration program and other incredibly complicated and expensive federally funded undertakings -- sensible immigration reform and enforcement of existing laws is somehow not "doable."

Bullfeathers.

To quote John Derbyshire, "We have no idea what is politically achievable until some politician tries to achieve it. In a democracy, that happens when enough people make enough noise banging on the politicians' doors." Apparently, the only people banging loud enough to be heard on this issue are Vincente Fox, businesses that rely on cheap exploitative labor, open border advocates and misguided Republican campaign strategists.

Your argument that Repubs are blaming Bush for creating the problem is also nonsensical. Those who object to this amnesty program are not blaming Bush for the original problem, but we are blaming him for repeated attempts at making the problem worse. If this legislation passes, we are likely to see a massive increase in both legal and illegal immigration as we signal the world most emphatically that there is no immigration law that can't be overcome by sheer force of numbers combined with our lack of political will.

107 posted on 01/08/2004 9:30:50 AM PST by browardchad
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To: FranklinsTower
Just about everybody agrees that this is a very complicated issue. So before rushing to judgment as many of the unappeasable purists are fond of doing, we should wait and see how the details work out during the legislative process.

Very well stated comments and this last paragraph speaks volumes IMHO!

108 posted on 01/08/2004 9:30:56 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: Cyber Liberty
"How does one man deport a few million people?" one by one...BTW, it's not "one man". We have an INS department to deport illegals. If ya can't come up with more thoughtful points and/or questions please refrain from addressing them to me. Thanks.
109 posted on 01/08/2004 9:31:58 AM PST by kellynla ("C" 1/5 1st Mar. Div. U.S.M.C. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi! HAPPY NEW YEAR!)
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To: kellynla
We have taken steps to eliminate permanent welfare recipients. It is not unreasonable that a Republican House and Senate could improve things further, especially now that aliens would be registered and required to work or kicked out.
110 posted on 01/08/2004 9:32:43 AM PST by BJClinton (If Howard Dean had his way, Saddam Hussein would be in power today, not in prison)
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To: healey22
Nice use of Democrat talking points there.

IIRC, the story was just a shot at Chavez to keep her off Bush's cabinet, and was quickly dropped after she decided not to fight the press to your satisfaction.

111 posted on 01/08/2004 9:33:08 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: PhiKapMom
PKM, I will say it again TAKE ME OFF THIS PING LIST!
112 posted on 01/08/2004 9:33:34 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space for rent)
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To: PhiKapMom
I like Chavez and think she is correct about Bush's proposal.
113 posted on 01/08/2004 9:33:35 AM PST by independentmind
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To: kellynla
Please look at my post #106, Einstein.
114 posted on 01/08/2004 9:34:09 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: PhiKapMom
This Chavez OpEd is pretty much the WH spin to try to sugar coat the issue.

Make no mistake, this is amnesty for those already here and an open door for more to come in from any country. They are supposed to be here for 3 or 6 years, then be banished back to their country of origin. That's the spin.

Nope, folks, that ain't how it will go. It's not just the worker that will be allowed to come here (or stay here if they are already here), it's the worker's family also. During those 3 to 6 years babies get born, anchor babies they are called, then they never have to leave. They get full social services, the whole 9 yards.

I will not vote for Bush.

115 posted on 01/08/2004 9:34:34 AM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: Cyber Liberty
I remember on a thread yesterday where someone was castigating me for using Hitler references when I suggested that this is what this could bring up in the eyes of the media and the rest of the world. 20% of this country has no problem thinking that Bush is as bad as Hitler and and 40% of the country gets swayed by whaterver is reported in the alphabet nets, PBS, NPR which if I last checked, has not been for ANY of bush's proposals and probably think that the moveon ads comparing Bush to Hitler are probably valid. People need to understand that the answer is not in black and white and deals more with the grey area that our side has to convince the 40% to think more like us.
116 posted on 01/08/2004 9:35:18 AM PST by futureceo31
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To: Texas Federalist
nope. Not unless one or other parent is already a
"LEGAL" U.S. Citizen.
117 posted on 01/08/2004 9:35:45 AM PST by DeathfromBelow
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To: WackyKat
First of all you miss the point people are making -- Pres Bush proposed this but did not make it the law.

You are making an assumption that most likely is not true when people have time to stop and think what the President really had to say instead of going over the edge.

If Pres Bush signed an executive order implementing this policy, I would agree with you. But any rationale thinking person knows that something needs to be done and this is the opening to Congress to get the job done.

Do you understand how your "sky is falling" approach is failing? If you didn't read the comments on the President's proposal by the democrat candidates, you should. Then tell the rest of us how all these people are going to stay home and allow one of those democrats to get elected. Not going to happen and you can take that to the bank. People do not usually agree with 100% of what a President does but when it comes to voting, you vote for the person nearest what you believe that CAN get elected.

118 posted on 01/08/2004 9:36:08 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
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To: Texas Federalist
If you are born on US soil, you are a US citizen.

Not under Tancredo's plan...which BTW was mentioned in the article...

SPECIAL RULE ON CITIZENSHIP AT BIRTH FOR CHILDREN OF H NONIMMIGRANTS- Notwithstanding title III of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1401 et seq.), or any other law, a child born in the United States to a parent who is a nonimmigrant described in section 101(a)(15)(H) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (as amended by section 210 of this Act) shall not be a national or citizen of the United States at birth unless the other parent is a citizen of the United States or an alien lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence.

The big picture that some, well actually, most of you seem to miss is that Bush stated clearly that it would be up to Congress to deal with the details of the guest worker program, he merely gave an outline and a little shove to get the ball rolling. Check out Tancredo's version, I think you will be surprised.
119 posted on 01/08/2004 9:36:17 AM PST by ravingnutter
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To: BushCountry
Your facts are interesting but do they refer to legal immigrants or illegal aliens? There's a big difference. I'm sure many of the legal immigrants to this country are more educated, do not rely on our welfare system, etc...

As for point #2, I'm tired of the comparisons to many of those who immigrated here about a 100 years ago. My family immigrated here about a 100 years ago and did not have or rely on any of the social services that are available and that we pay for today -- welfare, free health care, legal access, bilingual education, etc. And more importantly, they WANTED to assimilate in America -- they did not continue to speak their own language nor did they expect to be educated in their native tongue.

As for the article posted, it is too simplistic. I want to see a side-by-side comparison of the social and economic costs of illegal immigration vs. what they actually contribute to our economy. Maybe some business owners are getting rich, but the rest of us our paying... If the business owners have to pass their costs on to consumers because they can't hire illegals that's fine with me. I'll pay another cent on my apple.

rant done.
120 posted on 01/08/2004 9:37:42 AM PST by New Girl
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