Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

About the Moderators' recent efforts on the Illegal Alien threads: keep an open mind
January 7th, 2003 | Sabertooth

Posted on 01/07/2004 7:22:57 AM PST by Sabertooth

Edited on 01/07/2004 10:46:05 AM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]

You may have observed the recent effort in the forum by the Lead Moderator to scrutinize and regulate the Illegal Alien threads, which started over here.

I’ve mixed it up a lot on these threads in the two-plus year I’ve been at FR, as I have some strong feelings about the subject of Illegal Aliens. While I like to think I’ve generally kept my cool, there have certainly been occasions when I haven’t.

That said, there have been plenty of occasions where I’ve attempted to engage sincere posters who did not share my opinions, only to have them jumped on by angry posters who did. In the past I’ve made posts on threads and requests by Freepmail requesting that the more aggressive posters cool their jets… to mixed results.

I’ve also seen posts suggesting that the borders be mined, which I think is stupid, hyperbolic spleen, or posts referring to the President as “Jorge Arbusto,” which stopped being funny years ago, and is now just antagonistic. It doesn’t matter that Vicente Fox once called him that in a friendly fashion, no one on the fence regarding Illegals is going to be persuaded by ad hominem rhetoric.

On the other hand, I’ve also observed a shifting coalition of posters who are less than sincere on the other side of the debate; who are prone to using Democrat talking points to smear posters who are concerned about Illegals as anti-immigrant and closet racists. When reading their posts, one half-wonders if they aren’t moles for the L.A. Times.

Their perceptions of “bigots, bigots everywhere” and posts in that vein have also been toxic to the Illegal Alien threads, and such was often the purpose of their baiting. Success was measured in flame wars, bannings, suspensions, and getting threads nuked or moved to the backroom.

It’s been my contention, and I’ve made the point to the Moderators on a number of occasions, that moving threads to the backroom only rewarded those who don’t want Illegals discussed in this forum, and encouraged their trolling behavior.

I’ll stipulate again that my own hands haven’t always been clean in picking fights and thread jumping. I’ll also reveal that about a year or so ago I attempted to organize a call, via Freepmail, for some self-restraint on these threads. Toward that end, I contacted eight fairly high-profile posters, not all of whom were regulars on the Illegal threads, and whose opinions varied widely on the issue, with the idea of some sort of joint letter. The response was uniformly positive, but the details proved to be unwieldy, however, and the effort died on the vine.

Since then I would come and go from the Illegal Alien threads, and observe the ebbs and flows of all of the behavior I saw above.

A few months ago, I took a different tack, and got into a running conversation over my concerns with the Lead Moderator, through Freepmail.

Last week an Illegal Alien thread was moved to the Backroom, in another episode of the process I described above. This irked me a little more than usual, given the imminence of President Bush’s announcement of a new direction in immigration policy, and I ranted a little more than usual to the Lead Mod.

He was receptive to some of my criticisms, and decided to try the new approach that is now the matter at hand. He posted his account last night (emphasis added)…


To: All
I just got a Freepmail. Without posting it or who it was from, the gist of it was as follows:

1) That the timing of this effort was suspicious.

2) That this person feels the actions taken have shifted the emphasis of the forum from conservative oriented to party oriented.

I wanted to share with you my response:

I am being evenhanded on the matter. There have been those on one side of the issue have been warned about personal attacks and baiting. There have been those on the other side who have been warned about the same.

There has been one suspension, of someone who decided he was going to repost things which had been pulled. He has no one to blame but himself.

There has been one banning, of a person who said that there was no way he was going to abide by the way things are going to be. Once again, it was his choice and if he changes his mind he can mail Jim and his account will be restored.

The timing, you can have whatever suspicions you want. The fact is that for months, someone who is mostly on your side of the issue tried to get me to do more on these threads, hating how they get pulled when they turn into flame wars and how they get backroomed when they turn into flame wars. He would point to examples of baiting. He would point to personal attacks. Sometimes I would point out the things going the other way. Finally, he convinced me and I decided to give this approach a try.

To be honest, I think it is hilarious that some think I had some idea that some policy was coming out of the White House. It is good to be thought of as that well connected, I guess, but it sadly has no basis in reality.

I am going to post my reply on the thread. I won't quote your mail or your name, although I will paraphrase it.

Regards, LM

That is all.
262 posted on 01/06/2004 6:03:37 PM PST by Lead Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 261 | View Replies | Report Abuse | link ]

So, if it’s not clear already, the Lead Moderator’s statements in this post are 100% accurate and legitimate. The timing of this effort was a direct result of my conversation with him, and was not the result of some conspiracy by Free Republic higher-ups, or Karl Rove, or Vicente Fox, or whatever current dark speculation is now popular.

Nor is there any overarching effort to censor a wide-ranging debate on Illegals, as far as I’ve seen. In the context of the current effort underway on the Illegal Alien threads, I haven’t received even the slightest hint that there are subjects that are off limits to me in this regard, nor have I been given the impression that there can’t be vigorous debate, and I’m hardly a party-liner in this.

Now, I’m certain that some will find it to be an abomination that I would cooperate with a Moderator, or he with me, but, as a friend of mine likes to say, there you have it.

As for the results, they’ve been a bit mixed so far, in my estimation. Not, however, because the Mods haven’t made an effort to be evenhanded. I’ve seen a few folks I warned to keep cool get swift warning when they didn’t, and I’ve seen some of the usual baiters get cease and desist orders. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the effort to raise the tone of the debate on the Illegal Aliens isn’t sincere.

Are the Mods doing things exactly as I’d like? Nope, nor do I expect them to do so. I’ve got strong opinions and subjectivities here, so the standard of my assessment is the combined words and deeds of the Mods on these threads to correct all offenders. Things look promising thus far.

However, I do think that there are posters of diverse opinions who need to reconsider their ways, and take this effort to heart.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: filipinochicksrock; immigrantlist; itsallaboutme; memememememememe; oneissuevoter; pleasebehisopus; saberbunny; saberisnotanative; snowtooth
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280281-300301-320 ... 481-493 next last
To: angkor
Yes --- it would be racist if someone said that only "white" or whatever other race of people or maybe even ethnic group should be exempt from having to follow the same laws as other races or ethnic groups are expected to follow. For example --- if you said that white europeans should come here in any numbers, if found committing felony document fraud, they should not be punished because of their skin color but people of other races were expected to play by the rules --- I would think you were a racist.

If you say all people should follow this country's immigration laws --- regardless of race or ethnic background, or you said all immigration should be limited, that would not be racist.

281 posted on 01/07/2004 4:55:41 PM PST by FITZ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth
and I’ve seen some of the usual baiters get cease and desist orders

I think the moderators are trying very hard to be fair. I also think we know who the usual baiters are and that they aren't showing up to debate but to see if they can get someone banned. They taunt, they throw out silly accusations --- and we can just kind of ignore their baits. It's funny how some will claim that this country give up it's sovereignty --- because if you don't believe that it should ---- it's only because you're a racist.

282 posted on 01/07/2004 5:00:01 PM PST by FITZ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lead Moderator
The democrats favorite tactic--when they are losing--is to resort to "-phobia" or "race-" name calling. It does help to remember this when "hunting trolls". ;)

However, the truth is that some FReepers ARE exhibiting varying degrees of "stereotypical thinking".

Not all Mexicans are illegal aliens.
Not all Mexicans come from slums.
All Mexicans are not willing to do the "dirty work" of Americans.

There are many Americans who were born in Mexico, who are racially Mexican, but who have followed the legal procedures and become naturalized citizens.

So, while we may be able to spot a Lib because of his "name-calling" tactics, there may also be good FReepers out there trying to point out that the anger that should be directed toward illegal immigrants is being too broadly spread about.
283 posted on 01/07/2004 5:14:29 PM PST by TaxRelief ("Links" build the chain of knowledge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth
I learned early on that there are two types of threads to avoid: immigration threads and creation threads.

I am too personally involved with the immigration issue to be impartial.

Illegal aliens are committing a crime by entering the country illegally. A crime is a crime. I have been challenged many times and told that I, too, have committed crimes. I doubt it, but if I have, I am not living my life as a criminal nor am I a participant in an ongoing crime.

As a matter of fact, I entered this country LEGALLY , with a green card (thanks to the diligence of my parents) and was here for 13 years before getting my citizenship. My father was born in East London to working-class parents, and was the first one in his family to go to high school, let alone university. My mother never attended formal schooling after 13-yrs-of-age, but was self-educated beyond the undergraduate level of college.

My parents worked hard and planned their emmigration to America. My father spent 4 years in the RAF, while my mother worked, and they saved every cent that they could.

It took education, networking, prayer and planning to be able to fulfill their dreams of moving, legally--from a country that was doomed to socialism--to a country that was still encouraging individual liberties.

If America wasn't the only hope of the free world, this whole immigration thing wouldn't even be an issue.
284 posted on 01/07/2004 5:28:12 PM PST by TaxRelief ("Links" build the chain of knowledge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
I agree with everything you just said.
285 posted on 01/07/2004 5:31:24 PM PST by Lead Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 283 | View Replies]

To: mrustow
Lol! Don't you know you're not supposed to use their "logic" against them?
286 posted on 01/07/2004 6:29:17 PM PST by Pelham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 263 | View Replies]

To: PhiKapMom
Thanks for the ping. I think the president sincerely wants to do the right thing, but I think his approach is wrong. If his proposal leads to someone offering a worthwhile counterproposal, some good may come. However, I hope that Congress doesn't pass a law implementing this idea.

Resolving for 2004
Bill

287 posted on 01/07/2004 6:30:46 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth
Good job, Saber. I always knew you were brilliant.
288 posted on 01/07/2004 6:32:01 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul (Freedom isn't won by soundbites but by the unyielding determination and sacrifice given in its cause)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Actually President Eisenhower had an INS program that went by that very name:

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/print/OO/pqo1.html
289 posted on 01/07/2004 6:32:20 PM PST by Pelham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 272 | View Replies]

To: Marine Inspector; JackelopeBreeder
Good to see you both.

290 posted on 01/07/2004 6:36:24 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul (Freedom isn't won by soundbites but by the unyielding determination and sacrifice given in its cause)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 245 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
Not all Mexicans are illegal aliens.
Not all Mexicans come from slums.
All Mexicans are not willing to do the "dirty work" of Americans.

There are many Americans who were born in Mexico, who are racially Mexican, but who have followed the legal procedures and become naturalized citizens.

Well said. Many of my "Mexican" friends are from families that have lived in the U.S. for generations. They are culturally American, and speak spanish about as well as I do. A lot of my coworkers were born in Mexico and are bilingual, with plenty of relatives still in Mexico.

But none of us like living in neighborhoods flooded with people from across the border, overcrowding houses, schools, and with all the rest that comes from border anarchy.

291 posted on 01/07/2004 6:45:39 PM PST by Pelham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 283 | View Replies]

To: ClintonBeGone
I don't really see what is wrong with a rough and tumble exchange

You've got it.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Go play in the sandbox with the other children.

292 posted on 01/07/2004 6:52:37 PM PST by RightWinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Maigrey; Chad Fairbanks
http://www.trebuchet.com/
293 posted on 01/07/2004 6:54:00 PM PST by Pelham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: WFTR
I agree with you! It is a start and I know something has to be done, but I am sure hoping they tweak his plan. What I don't want is what I posted this evening from the Dem candidates. Those people and their ideas are scarey.
294 posted on 01/07/2004 6:57:03 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Support Bush-Cheney '04)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 287 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth
honest effort from honest character

congrats
295 posted on 01/07/2004 7:06:49 PM PST by KC Burke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Victoria Delsoul
Hey, beautiful. Thanks for the kind wishes while I was getting my heart rebuilt. Believe me, it meant a lot. I'm avoiding posting tonight as I'm working on a new installment of the Illegal Alien Trails©.
296 posted on 01/07/2004 8:02:45 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 290 | View Replies]

To: PhiKapMom; Sabertooth
Great thread.
297 posted on 01/07/2004 8:04:14 PM PST by AuntB (REFORM SS DISABILITY: http://www.petitiononline.com/SSDC/petition.html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Pelham
Overcrowded schools? Public schools are a tremendous cost for the American taxpayer, whether it is for American kids or immigrant kids.

I'll bet every argument you use to justify a public school system applies to educating immigrant kids as well.
298 posted on 01/07/2004 8:05:11 PM PST by TaxRelief ("Links" build the chain of knowledge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 291 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
If America wasn't the only hope of the free world, this whole immigration thing wouldn't even be an issue.

So true! At the same time, we may witnessing it's demise through a dillution from the South which has no popular solution. Seems the answer is either: maintain America and the dream that goes with it while maintaining heavy casualties at the border or, change it into an unrecognizable third-world stop-over that will essentially put an end to it's attractiveness.

The debate rages between capitalism and socialism and those given to voting mostly democrat in our 'democracy' may doom us all to form of slavery our founders never intended. Who'd a thunk that our fate might come down to borders and ballots?

299 posted on 01/07/2004 8:12:45 PM PST by budwiesest (Ain't making this up, read it on the internet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 284 | View Replies]

To: Final Authority
"You may have a problem with the English language because I never said I would use deadly force, I never wrote that anybody "should" use deadly force, I said criminals are subject to destruction as would be invaders."

I see. You obviously went to the Clinton School of Linguistics.

Destruction of a criminal or an invader requries the application of deadly force. That is, BTW, what the military does. Your refusal to practice what you demand that others do for you marks you as a moral coward, unable to face the consequences of your own ideas.

"The key word here is "subject" so please retract what you said that I said or please do not bother to write me for it appears you are not of interest to me to have a constructive dialog."

"Is an airplane flying outside of a prescribed flight plan over our nation "subject" to destruction?"

Not automatically, as you indicate.

"Are we at war with that plane?"

Read the Treaty of Westphalia to understand the definition of "war."

"Of course it is and we are not at war."

Actually, it is NOT "subject to destruction" merely for flying outside of a prescribed flight plan. And you must've slept through 9/11/01.

"I answered the question for you because I do not expect any replies in the future from you."

Tough noogies. I'll keep blasting away at your inept arguments.
300 posted on 01/07/2004 8:15:07 PM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 280 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280281-300301-320 ... 481-493 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson