About the Moderators' recent efforts on the Illegal Alien threads: keep an open mind

January 7th, 2003 | Sabertooth

[BraveMan]

. . . it would be nice if someone spoke up in defense of what we've been trying to do . . .

This place can get downright silly sometimes . . .

Here is a suggestion. Provide donors the ability to view the nuked posts. Your donation rate would increase exponentially.

[Admin Moderator]

Yep.

[Admin Moderator]

Hey, you stole my line. ;)

[Joe Hadenuf]

LOL! You were suspended for posting/bumping someone's else's post? That must have been a doozy of a post. I don't think anyone here can top that one either!

I asked the mod to post my violation, but I not expecting to see it. Again, if I deserved the suspension fine, but I really don't know what violation I was guilty of. If someone could post or quote my violation I would appreciate it.

Thanks to all.

[BushCountry]

This debate is curious one and this post has been an informative one. However, I am stuck in the middle. I grew up on the south side of Chicago in a deeply hispanic neighborhood, where I was the minority (blond haired blue eyed, now graying though). Several resturants close to my house didn't even have an english speaking person in them, I had to point to an item on the menu for what I wanted (the seafood soup was unbelieveably good).

What I observed is that most of the people in my neighborhood were honorable, hard working, and dedicated to their families. They loved their adopted home (America) and they loved Mexico. But, they hated their corrupt government (a hundred times more corrupt then here) and knew that only poverty and despair awaits them in their country of birth. They escaped to America to provide a better life for themselves in spite loving their home country.

In spite of what other posters claim, they would not willing play host to terrorists anymore then the average American. They do not deserve to be flung back across the border by catapults. Borders do not need to mined, thus blowing up families trying to escape poverty. For most of us, it is just quirk of fate that we were born in America and a little compassionate conservatism is called for.

I truly do not know all the answers to this problem and believe that there is no easy solution. So, with every thing being said, even with the reasoned debate on this thread, I have seen no real solutions discussed or debated.

[ken5050]

would the new "legal" be coverd by the minimum wage laws?...you betcha....consider the effect THAT will have..

[PhiKapMom]

Personally don't think it will make it out of Congress either but I sure hope better enforcement of our borders will be the result of this dialog.

Something has to be done. Illegals are arrested, given to INS, and INS doesn't have a large enough presence here in OK to do anything about the problem. We had a Sheriff in the Tulsa area offer to pay for a bus to escort the illegals back to Mexico. Our local law enforcement needs to have the laws made so they can take them back and assist INS in deportation.

[ladyinred]

All we do in flame wars is give ammunition to the enemies of conservatives.

Very well said, and my sentiments exactly. I have been troubled by this very thing lately as we are coming into election season, and this is the last thing we need to be doing. Divided we fall.

[christiankungfu]

Ive also had a post deleted already.

Im sorry that so many conservatives are afflicted with the same illogical blind-sheep mentality that allows them to overlook the shameful implications of this amnesty proposition. Just going along with the party line....no different than liberals!

This move is a slap in the face to law abiding immigrants and those waiting to be approved for entrance.

These people are CRIMINALS who came here illegally, steal educational, health and other benefits, dont pay taxes, and send our money back to Mexico.

If people get the PC stick out of their hole, and have some integrity, they'd see that this is clearly another move by the administration to lock up those key electoral votes in Florida. Prescription health care was one move, this will solidify it.

Thanks so much Bush for accelerating the union of the GOP and the Democrats...we can barely tell you apart!

[PhiKapMom]

Thanks for the info on Rush.

[ladyinred]

Thank you Saber.

[swarthyguy]

Amnesty has to come to save the Social Security system.

[ken5050]

From the "graying" hair description...( though I myself perfer "salt and pepper", LOL) we're about the ame age...I'm 56,, and grew up in NYC..in the melting pot, as it were...at that time, and when we first learned about the US as a nation of immigrants, the key word, uses over and over again in our civics textbook, was "assimilation"...now, it doesn't exist...go ahead, pick up any currently used elementary, even HS history test, and try and find the word...and that's the problem...immigrants aren't assimilating...when voting instructions at the polls are available in 5 or more languages, then Houston, we've got a BIG problem..

[blackie]

He's still talking about it. :)

[elli1]

Go back up a few posts to the woman with a "Hispanic" in-law and tell me she doesn't think she is one step closer to god than we of the inferior bloodlines.

I didn't think she thought that at all. But I am curious as to why you didn't just ask her directly and let her respond to your attempt to divine her thought.

[ken5050]

That's one reason why it's proposed..but most illegals today are paid less than the minimum wage...indeed, that's one reason why it's easy to employ them...if you're forced to pay the same wages, then most will hire Americans....what the unintended consequnce will be is that it will cause "wars' between "legal" and "illegal" Mexicans...

[GraniteStateConservative]

So what's the problem? Are people not pushing the abuse button as often as they should?

[Ima Lurker]

I agree with you. As a matter of fact, I enjoy a good rough and tumble exchange of ideas now and then. I don't even mind the name calling because that just proves that I've won the debate. The only time anyone resorts to name calling is when they can't defend their position.

[mrustow]

Nor is there any overarching effort to censor a wide-ranging debate on Illegals, as far as I’ve seen. I haven’t received even the slightest hint that there are subjects that are off limits to me in this regard, nor have I been given the impression that there can’t be vigorous debate, and I’m hardly a party-liner in this.

All I know is, that 90%+ of the best articles on immigration are published by a web site that is banned on FR. Thus, it is impossible to have an intelligent, thorough, informed debate on illegal immigration here.

[Lead Moderator]

Boy, you have some real problems with truth in your statements. First, you claimed you didn't see something which was provable that you did, now you are claiming I "initiated this petty discussion over suspending" you when you did.

But you want it up here? Fine and dandy. It is up here. You got what you went out of your way to get.

To: Pubbie

"President Bush will propose immigration law changes to allow workers from Mexico to enter the United States if they have jobs waiting for them,"

Bush has just indicated that all employers who employ illegals are no longer breaking the law, that illegals who are employed in US are no longer breaking the law, and that low (lettuce picking), middle (hospital workers, etc.) and high (construction, plumbing, etc.) wage jobs are now available to foreigners who will displace Americans.

This has totally clinched it for me. What a ($#&%*$# disgrace of a Republican this man is. I don't much care any more that he's not a slut like Clinton. He has ballooned domestic spending and torn down our borders worse than Clinton ever did. We have been shafted right, left and center.

29 posted on 01/05/2004 9:07:08 PM EST by Lizavetta (Savage is right. Extreme liberalness is a mental disorder.)

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To: Lizavetta

"What a ($#&%*$# disgrace"

Your anger came through loud and clear- even without this. Your post would have been better without this, and would be less likely to result in starting a flame war with some Bush supporters. Please consider that in the future, if you would. It would help prevent these threads from degenerating to where we need to backroom them or yank them.

38 posted on 01/05/2004 9:12:48 PM EST by Lead Moderator

At this point, nothing had been pulled. The above is the post you claimed on this thread to not have seen. The proof this this was a lie by you is in your reply to it which now follows.

To: Lead Moderator; Lizavetta

"Your anger came through loud and clear- even without this.

Your post would have been better without this, and would be less likely to result in starting a flame war with some Bush supporters."

You've got to be joking!

All the poster stated was, "What a ($#&%*$# disgrace".

AND IT IS A $#*^$#@ DISGRACE!

What would you suggest the poster say after 25 years of this epic invasion and attack on our sovereignty while all in DC stand gawking and are even aiding and abetting this massive lawlessness?

Are we no longer a nation of laws?

The poster did nothing wrong!

I for one am more than happy to see the truthful, justified anger. People *need* to express themselves freely.

This issue is *way* beyond calm, limp wristed discussion over tea. It's a freaking invasion of our country!

It's a government approved invasion of millions for crying out loud. Why does anyone have to walk on glass over this?

These are criminals and illegal aliens. Do some now have to mask and sugar coat their anger and walk on eggshells over this? What is really going on here??

It seems to me the Republican party knows there is going to be a political earth quake over this, and some are getting a jump on damage control.

Anyone that *isn't* absolutely outraged over this titanic invasion is no conservative, and is obviously putting party before country and is just protecting their beltway party.

This is not what this country is all about.

I've seen what this invasion has done to a people I know personally and regions I've worked in. It's an absolute disgrace!

84 posted on 01/05/2004 10:18:09 PM EST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)

I pulled your comment since you were basically throwing back at me what I had just asked not to be done.

To: Joe Hadenuf

"You've got to be joking!" Actually, I wasn't.

86 posted on 01/05/2004 10:19:47 PM EST by Lead Moderator

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To: Lead Moderator

Neither was I.

87 posted on 01/05/2004 10:20:45 PM EST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)

At this point it was clear that you were primed for a pissing match. At some point thereafter, I left. Not too much later:

To: Lizavetta

Bump

This has totally clinched it for me. What a ($#&%*$# disgrace of a Republican this man is. I don't much care any more that he's not a slut like Clinton. He has ballooned domestic spending and torn down our borders worse than Clinton ever did. We have been shafted right, left and center.

92 posted on 01/05/2004 10:33:19 PM EST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)

The thread went on for several hours with you involved until the next morning, when I came back to check on the thread and saw your throwing it back again. That's when you got hit with the suspension. And the next time such a situation occurs with you, it won't be just a suspension but a ban.