Bush to Give Illegals Social Security Benefits

United Press International via Cox.Net ^ | 6 January 2004 | United Press International

[Spiff]

Bush to Give Illegals SS Benefits January 06 2004 03:29:00 PM EST

President Bush is set to present his immigration proposal Wednesday. WASHINGTON, Jan 06, 2004 (United Press International via COMTEX) -- President Bush wants to let some of the eight million illegal aliens in the United States move toward legal status without penalty -- but with benefits. His proposals, part of a sweeping change in U.S. immigration policy, will be revealed Wednesday, the Washington Times reported.

Bush will propose that illegal aliens from Mexico, and possibly other countries, who pay U.S. Social Security taxes, but provide false identification numbers, be allowed to collect benefits.

"The president has long talked about the importance of having an immigration policy that matches willing workers with willing employers," said White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan Monday.

The plan is expected to be opposed by Republicans on Capitol Hill, but it will be embraced by Mexican President Vicente Fox when he meets Bush during a Jan. 12-14 meeting in Monterrey, Mexico.

The changes have long been advocated by Fox, whose close relationship with Bush has been strained since border security efforts were beefed up after the Sept. 11 attacks and since Mexico refused to support the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

Fox said the plan would allow Mexicans "to go and come each year as many times as they want, without problems, so that they can work with documents in the United States."

Copyright 2004 by United Press International.

[churchillbuff]

Look, I'm all for kicking the bastards the hell out.

No you're not -- or you wouldn't be making excuses for Bush's pandering on the illegal issue.

[lowbridge]

Bush will propose that illegal aliens from Mexico, and possibly other countries, who pay U.S. Social Security taxes, but provide false identification numbers, be allowed to collect benefits.

Oh wow! Can I do that? Oh wait, I'm a citizen, I might go to prison for fraud.

[WOSG]

"I'll restate my position, though. We need, and prosper from, the cheap labor that Mexicans provide. There's no way that American high school students today are going to work in the orchards of the San Joaquin Valley at minimum wage to pick fruits and nuts. Nor are any other Americans."

Um, we dont *need* that labor ... supply will meet demand. It's only a matter of paying enough to attract the labor.
Ship the country's homeless to the valley for 3 weeks, throw in Cali college students looking for extra money, etc.
And/or mechanize the job. Or pay more. It will get gone if we "need" the lettuce, belgian endives, cantelope and tomatoes, etc.

Now, that will entail a higher cost. Here's the question though: Is that higher cost not balanced out by a lower cost for the medical care, which is shifted from emplyoers to the public health system; for welfare, which is also shifted, since these folks raid the food pantries to fill the gap from the pittance they make in the fields. etc.We have a system where the LiberalWelfareState is in effect SUBSIDIZING LOW WAGE EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES. IS THIS SYSTEM RIGHT? IS IT RIGHT TO LET THAT HAPPEN? You see, it's a cost to us too to support that welfare system. Maybe we are better off without that burden.

So I get cheaper cantelopes but I have to pay into our huge $400 billion welfare and $400 billion a year medicare systems. Am I ahead at the end of the day?

You know for the last 25 years I've been against the minimum wage law, but writing that last sentence made me think how minimum wage at least stops some of that low-wage "welfare freeloading".

[PuNcH]

Why are you so opposed to a guest worker program?

Why would we have anything shoved down our throats based upon the govt's refusal to enforce the laws and obligations under the constitution? When would it end?

This wouldnt just be an amnesty for the illegals it would be an amnesty for the govts own disregard for the law and the constitution.

I'm sure you've heard many other legitimate reasons many times.

[Rebelbase]

"Here is the goal we must have in mind. Win this election by an overwhelming margin, sweep the Democrats from the table, and then launch a coup within the GOP."

The thoughts of Bush doing the right thing once his reelection is wrapped up and he has congress is null and void with this amnesty proposal and you will know its fantasy when is renews the Assault Weapons Ban.

IMO, Bush is setting up a Dynasty, from which he will puppet master the strings as head of he Republican Party from now until he chooses. Call me tin foil, but how else can we explain the Patriot Act, massive spending on Medicaid and 8 million new Bush voters added?

[GluteusMax]

AFTER THIS AMNESTY PROPOSAL, DOES ANYONE HAVE A DOUBT WHAT BUSH WILL DO WITH THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BILL RENEWAL?

Not a shadow of a doubt in my mind brother.

I am certain that 43 will not only renew the 'work' of 42 but expand on it.

They can pucker up and kiss my ass too. This administration is turning into the effin clone of 41. Just as wobbly and non-conservative.

November surprise for them if they follow through with all this treasonous crap.

[WOSG]

"The circle jerk is the only alternative we have. Our vote is our one chance to make a difference. "

WRONG. 98% of political activism happens OUTSIDE the voting booth.

Let's focus this discussion on positive alternatives to this idea, in a way that can be saleable immigration policy that protects our borders and legal integrity. My ideas are in post #384. And yours?


"Bush acts like an idiot with this proposal (respectfully said) and I really, for the first time since he was elected am completly and utterly disgusted with him."

I think it is a brilliant proposal frankly. Brilliant because it cracks the division between staying here and making them voting members of the LiberalWelfareState. It divides the La Raza extremists from the business supporters of immigration-for-employment. Anyway, What is so bad with having a Guest Worker program?

It also is a 'drain the swamp' approach to getting rid of incentives for illegal immigration. Guest worker problem acts like a stop-valve on the demand for such labor.
Combined with strict enforcement of immigration laws and fines against employers, it could end the incentivizing of
illegal immigration. Just a thought.

Note that 10 years under Clinton and 1st half of Bush
admin, it kept getting worse, with no change to status quo. Do you think status quo is acceptable?

[WOSG]

Ellis Island? Close it as this amnesty proposal dishonors the memory of those who sacrificed everything but their lives to start anew in this country. And while we are there lets go ahead and move the Statue of Liberty to the Rio Grande.

Your comment IMHO makes no sense. The Bush proposal is hardly an immigration proposal and more of a guest worker proposal, but in what way does this proposal for a new type of legal immigrant work permit go agaisnt the spirit of previous immigrants? In and of itself, it does nothing special for the illegal aliens. You *do* realize that America had MUCH MORE OPEN BORDERS in 1870 to 1924, and that is why many of us are here. (Open to the non-Chinese, anyway.).

[USA4ME]

I think some have overreacted to this. Here's a possible scenario:

President Bush proposes this action. It goes to the House and to the Senate, gets watered down to be meaningless, Bush still has the platform that at least he tried to address the issue (just another issue the DEM-wits have given lip-service to but never do anything about), but that he could only get what he could get for the moment and after he is reelected he'll try again. In the meanwhile, he secures the votes of many Hispanics, currently the largest growing minority in the USA just for the effort.

The liberals are panicked over this. Will they admit it? No. They're too damn stupid to do anything or think anyway that's not outlined in their little red book.

[AmericanInTokyo]

I just visted the FR poll on illegal immigrants being turned into legal guests through regularization or amnistia or whatever you want to call it.

And it is something like, if I recall, a whopping 86% AGAINST the Bush Plan, as compared to 6% FOR the Bush Plan. That is AMAZING for an essentially conservative GOP discussion board. I hope the White House hears this tonight! 11:15 p.m. Eastern 8:15 p.m. Pacific

[faithincowboys]

Here's what the jerks at DU think:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=991400

You know what's weird, the thought of sticking it to them isn't as strong as it was before this amnesty BS came down the pike. Rove has just screwed up-- big time. If this guy isn't working for the DNC, he should be.

[Rebelbase]

How can we fufill any of your proposals when our President has said in other words "the old system doesn't work, so we are going to try a new system"....thats what he is saying with Amnesty.....the days of old are over, welcome to the new Bush America.

I agree with your ideas, but they are fantasy now.

[Dog Gone]

You're basically right. In a truly free market, labor attracts the wages it deserves, and employers have to pay whatever it takes to get the labor it desires.

In the case of Mexican workers, the cost of labor is passed onto taxpayers to the extent that they're using other governmental services.

But, so are the costs of everyone else in the country, working or not. Some pay their share, and some don't. It's a matter of how clever, or how lazy you are.

Forget about the food pantries, that's not even an issue. We throw away enough food in this country every day to feed another country.

The medical care issue is huge, though, and it's going to eat us alive, whether or not we decide to throw immigrants into the issue. We've simply gotten too good at keeping people alive, but the cost is not cheap. We simply can't afford to keep everyone alive at a cost nobody can afford to pay.

That is the Achilles heel that faces us. Giving it free to guest workers only makes the problem worse (although we're arguably already doing that today).

[WackyKat]

It also is a 'drain the swamp' approach to getting rid of incentives for illegal immigration. Guest worker problem acts like a stop-valve on the demand for such labor. Combined with strict enforcement of immigration laws and fines against employers, it could end the incentivizing of illegal immigration. Just a thought.

You are living in a dream world if you think amnesty will slow illegal immigration.

Amnesty is a clear signal to the entire world that the US has no desire to enforce its immigration laws, and illegal entry will be tolerated and eventually rewarded with legal status.

Which is exactly what happened with the previous amnesty-it only drew the millions of illegals who are eligible for the new amnesty.

The same cycle will continue,and in 15 years we'll have another 15-20 million illegals which a president pandering for the Hispanic vote will give amnesty to.

And if you think this amnesty will be combined with strict enforcement and penalties against employers sufficient to deter them, you are just wrong

The same old, same old will continue

[WOSG]

"Why would we have anything shoved down our throats based upon the govt's refusal to enforce the laws and obligations under the constitution?"

I agree that Govt should enforce the immigration laws,
but your comment is a non sequitor.

The proposal is to change the law, to have a guest worker program. It is not based on or justified by the Govts non-enforcement of remaining laws. Those are two separate pieces in the puzzle.

What if these new permits were proposed IN CONJUNCTION with stepped-up and serious enforcement that hit the supply and demand of illegal immigration and fixed the gap in the borders. Would you support it (see post #384).

[faithincowboys]

"It also is a 'drain the swamp' approach to getting rid of incentives for illegal immigration. Guest worker problem acts like a stop-valve on the demand for such labor.
Combined with strict enforcement of immigration laws and fines against employers, it could end the incentivizing of
illegal immigration. Just a thought. "

Perhaps, you're right, but why are you grasping at straws to defend this. Why have we not had Administration officials explaining this and preparing us to intellectually embrace this. The way this was done will leave a bad taste in a lot of mouths. We simply were taken for granted-- it is a terrible feeling.

[Rebelbase]

"President Bush wants to let some of the eight million illegal aliens in the United States move toward legal status without penalty -- but with benefits."

The people who are here illegally being "rewarded" amnesty for breaking the law betrays the honor of immigrants who came into this country with nothing and built it into something........It defiles the honor of Ellis Island and all who passed through there.

[org.whodat]

What if these new permits were proposed IN CONJUNCTION with stepped-up and serious enforcement that hit the supply and demand of illegal immigration and fixed the gap in the borders. Would you support it (see post #384).

I must be the dumb kid in the back of the room, but wasn't this the same bill-of-goods sold in 1986???

[AmericanInTokyo]

Even WORSE.

[Protagoras]

Nah, just stay stuck, A prisoner to the "liberal lite" party. You have no where to go, and they know it, so you are taken for granted, no vote, no voice.

Fear works,,,on some.