Egypt Airliner CRASHED in Egypt - A final update on root cause analysis? Technical Fault Blamed

Various | 1/3/2004 | ME

[Sacajaweau]

Oh, hell!! I watched a James Bond marathon last week. Just use your imagination.

Usama was into blowing up embassies for a while (in addition to the Trade Center). It worked well. Structures is his expertise.

The 9-11 hits only worked okay leaving two targets unscathed.

So it looks like we're back to structures....structures of planes. How do we by-pass security, pack a plane with explosives and hold it there, detonate it at a time it will do the most damage, and have almost simultaneous events.

[longjack]

Some minor editing at "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" adds these items:

excerpt....

Egyptian air traffic control authorities named a technical defect as the probable cause of the accident.

"The cause is still a technical one so far," Secretary for Civilian Air Traffic, Ahmed Schafik, said on state television. "There was a malfunction which made it difficult for the crew to save the airplane". French traffic undersecretary Dominique Bussereau said flight FSH604 had problems at take off in Scharm al Scheich on Saturday. After that, the pilot had tried to return to the airport. The Egyptian authorities explained an emergency call hadn't been sent. Egyptian Secretary of State Ahmed Maher said the accident isn't deemed as being connected with a terrorist attack.

"FAZ"....Boeing mit Touristen abgestürzt - 148 Tote

Translated by longjack

[_Jim]

It was probably the same as that out-of-control food cart that rolled down the ailse to the back of Flight 587 and destroyed the tailfin!

I thought 'tailfins' went out in the late fifties/early sixties - did they SOMEHOW make a comeback for *style* reasons in the field of aeronautics?

(Methinks this poor person is referring to a 'vertical stabilizer'. NTSB report)

[asb3pe]

Get over it - don't you remember the vertical stabilizer that was fished out of the lake?

It's pretty apparent it was a 'materials failure' (fatigue, design failure, etc) on that Airbus.

Yes, and I also remember that both engines dropped off the wings soon after the vertical stabilizer supposedly broke off first.

I suppose this was all coincidence, right? Or were the reports false?

Sorry, I've never bought the "jet wash" excuse for why the pilot was apparently doing what he is trained never to do, which is slam the rudder pedals left-right-left-right until the stabilizer breaks.

And *I* might be a neophyte, but I did converse with an aeronautical engineer soon after, he said that while it is indeed possible that the composite stabilizer could fail, it was a highly suspect crash, especially coming so soon after 9-11. Not that it will mean anything to you of course. In case you missed it, I will say it again - this is all my own opinion.

[LikeLight]

Anybody been on the big terror threat thread in the last few days?

A new graphic was posted (at least 24 hours before this crash) from a Jihadi website with a bloody hand rising out of Saudi Arabia with a map of the RED SEA area.

I'll find the link. It's too coincidental for me.

Just like the calendar that came out before 911 with the plane going down in NYC.

One Moroccan tourist? Wonder what was in his luggage?

[TexasCajun]

Who's purported??
I'm no purporter!
Did your parents use scientific disipline on you as a child?
I am a Monday-Morning Arm-Chair Quarterback, get it right!

[SteveAustin]

I think both points of view on this thread are correct:

A)I think the 737 does have some design problems. Those are documented. Think of all the people (including ourselves) who make mistakes in our daily life. i.e. forget to lock the car door, forget to close the windows before a storm, forget to file a report at work, etc.

Now, think about all the guys who build, maintain and fly planes. Logical to think those guys are going to screw-up at times also, and fantastic accidents occur because of it. Maybe the mechanic just had a bitter fight with his wife before returning to his shift, etc.

B)Given that this was an Egyptian town, frequented by European tourists, Blair was or would be in the area, and no distress calls, and all the AQ "chatter" we hear about, you have to think terrorism is possibility #1 here. Stupid not to think otherwise.

[Sacajaweau]

Can anyone come up with graphics of what a wheel well looks like?? I'm kinda curious if you can fit a small suitcase in there, in addition to a body.

[longjack]

Things seem to be coming out slowly.

It's hard to imagine how the authorities know the plane had problems even though it didn't send out an SOS. Maybe the pilots were talking with ATC the entire time while trying to get it back in, then lost it suddenly.

It also seems that the information about the plane turning back came out 4 or 5 hours after the reports that the plane had crashed, which was 3 or 4 hours after the crash itself. The plane crashed at 10:45 PM EST last night by my calcualtions.

I have no idea if this time line is usual, so I'll have to defer to those people who know what they're talking about.

OTOH, all the material coming out is consistent with a mechanical failure such as the rudder issues these planes are known to have.

Egypt certainly doesn't want to scare away tourists, so they will be very careful with issuing statements, I'm sure.

longjack

[SteveAustin]

There is a story out that says this:

"Egypt's Civil Aviation Ministry initially ruled out terrorism, calling the crash an "accident" apparently caused by a mechanical problem. Egypt's civil aviation minister says there was some sort of malfunction and there was little the crew could do to save to plane"

How in a few hours does this Minister know all this? And if he does, why doesn't he elaborate on the specifics of the problem if it was only mechanical?

In the US, would we accept it if Rumsfeld got on the air a few hours after a crash like this and said "oh, it was all mechanical, we just know this" and nothing more was said?

This thing does smell bad.

[eno_]

Pretty much the instand the plane hit the water "officials" were saying it was "defintely not terrorism."

These third-world propaganda guys flush their credibility down the toilet pretty fast.

[thesummerwind]

Typically, when a plane explodes for some reason, the pilots don't get a chance to call home and say goodbye. :) Let's see if they ever find an intact body, or if they continue to simply find arms and legs.

This incident strikes me as being quite similar to flight 587, ---yep.

[Schuck]

Diogenesis, that's the first time I had seen that calender. It is absolutely chilling. Just searched through the archives, but couldn't find anything more about it. Is there another thread that gives the full story? Thanks.

[longjack]

I found this interesting tidbit near the botom of a "Spiegel" article. Evidently they had a reader call in who had flown on that very aircraft in November:

Excerpt....

According to information from a "SPIEGEL ONLINE" reader who flew with the plane in November, the Boeing didn't seem very well cared for, though. The seat backs were wobbly, everything crackled and looked almost shabby.

.....

Apparently, the plane had been taken over from an airline company in a Spanish speaking area, because in many spots there had still been messages that could be read in Spanish. However, the crew made a competent impression, and take offs and landings ran optimally, as well.

"Spiegel Online"...."Die Verwandten stehen unter Schock"

Translated by longjack

[longjack]

# 156 was supposed to go to you.

longjack

[thesummerwind]

Welcome to your world as envisioned, designed and built by Mr. Rogers!

--- a much better world than yours, I can say for sure, as he lived three doors away from me for over a decade!

You stepped in it again, Arlen.

[freeperfromnj]

"A new graphic was posted (at least 24 hours before this crash) from a Jihadi website with a bloody hand rising out of Saudi Arabia with a map of the RED SEA area."

It's at post 4703

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1013726/posts?q=1&&page=4703

[Toskrin]

Do you have conclusions on Flight 800, by the way?

I don't have a strong opinion on it. I suspect it was either as the NTSB says it was, or it was shot down by terrorists. I am somewhat doubtful that it was shot down by the Navy and covered up afterwards. That would involve deception on the part of hundreds of people in different parts of the government at multiple levels. I don't think such a deception could last very long. Someone's conscience would get the best of them.