How Free is Free Republic

kuro5hin.org ^ | Mon Dec 29th, 2003 at 09:53:55 PM EST | felixrayman

[visagoth]

I didn't find this posted here on FR - so here we go.....

	How Free is Free Republic? By felixrayman Mon Dec 29th, 2003 at 09:53:55 PM EST
	Free Republic is an online story and discussion site similar to Kuro5hin.org, but with an explicitly conservative bias. The site proclaims itself to be "an online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web." Intrigued, I proceeded to offer some comments to stories there, addressing some factual errors and dissenting with some conservative views. The result was a quick lesson in the right-wing view of free expression. The experiment left an open question - where do you go on the web to engage conservatives in open debate? Where is the right-wing version of k5?

One article on the Free Republic site entitled "Dean Finally Shoots Self Somewhere Other Than Own Foot" attacks Howard Dean for his statement that "The capture of Saddam has not made America safer". The poster of the article goes on to claim, "If any of the Left is paying attention, Dean has just officially proven the he is DEFINITELY clueless when it comes to foreign policy. Another in a long line of RATS that just doesn't get it". My reply that "Actually it's pretty obvious that the capture of Saddam hasn't made the world safer - international airline flights had to be cancelled a few days ago due to threats of terrorism and in Iraq the last few days have been as bloody for coalition forces as the days before Saddam's capture" was removed by a moderator within a few minutes. A comment posted to another Free Republic story, "Howard Dean: The Mayor of Milwaukee", in an attempt to belittle Howard Dean's fiscal record claimed that the budget of one county in Illinois was larger than the budget of the state of Vermont. It claimed the budget of the County of DuPage, near Chicago, to be $1.6 billion, and that the budget for the entire state of Vermont was $73 million. After a quick google search, I found this assertion to be incorrect. The reply I posted 'The "$73 million" figure you quote is for the Vermont Municipal Employees' Retirement System, not the entire Vermont budget. Vermont's budget calls for 1.8 billion in state spending with another billion in federal spending', was removed within a few minutes. The Free Republic claims in its help section that, "While Free Republic is not edited or censored, it does reserve the right to remove any postings that are considered inappropriate. Examples of inappropriate posts are those that are off-subject or contain advertising, pornography, obscene material, racist material, Nazi (or other hate group) material, materials promoting violence, threats or illegal acts, etc". It would be interesting to know under which category my replies were considered to fall. For another example, a response to the story "You Might be a Leftist If . . ." read, in part "The only meaningful difference is between those who believe in the original intent interpretation of the Constitution and those who do not. Those who believe in the Constitution believe in individual liberty. Those who ignore or rewrite the Constitution do not believe in individual liberty. This is the only difference which matters. " I responded to this poster with the comment "Individual liberty? Didn't the constitution as written specifically allow for the continuation of slavery as an American institution"? Within minutes, the post was removed by a moderator. In addition, after this third reply, my ability to post comments on the site was revoked. So obviously, the Free Republic is not free, except in the sense that the German Democratic Republic was democratic, or the sense that supporting the PATRIOT Act is patriotic. Web site operators certainly have a right to set whatever rules they choose for their users. And a quick test showed that there are sites with a left-wing bias that are just as cowardly as Free Republic when it comes to allowing an actual debate. The question remains, are there any sites with a conservative bias that allow such debate?

Full discussion: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/12/27/173837/60

---

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest © 2000 - 2001 Kuro5hin.org Inc.

[kitkat]

***It was clear from them taken in aggregate that he was here to troll (I particularly liked the post which denounced any claim the founding of the US had to liberty to be null and void because slavery existed- I guess we need to repudiate all the wisdom of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle as well).***

ZOUNDS! I LOVE it! What a reply.

[hotpotato]

Looks like people on his own site are calling him on his BS.

Though I understand Jim's position and the position of those that don't want DU here (I don't either), I would have liked to have seen people here call him on his BS. Freepers are often quite witty and entertaining :-) as well as well-informed. FR regularly receives posts from people wanting to know how to respond to the leftist slant/disinformation and a debate like that here would have been helpful as well as instructive, imo. But having managed lists, I'm aware it can often be a tough call on when to pull the plug before you have chaos. Jim, I appreciate what you do, too. More than you will ever know :-)

[hotpotato]

As to the one "factual correction", it still misses the point that the budget of the State of Vermont is roughly equivalent to a Chicago suburb, using his own figures.

Agreed. And I don't think it was pulled for that. I suspect there is more to this story than what the zotted one is posting on his website.

[hotpotato]

I'm drinking a beer followed by another beer, imported of course, anybody want to debate about that?

ooooo, good idea. I just picked up some Peruvian Cusquenas. EXCELLENT!! Gotta go get one, now. 'squeeze me.....

[kitkat]

Well said, RK.

[buzzyboop]

kuro5hin is left-wing?

I visited it for the first time, and it seems very sinister to me! And I understand this is after some past loony-left exodus from the site, probably not left enough for them... they must have felt LEFT OUT! Ok glannon, you can stop your trolling now...

[freedumb2003]

A ban is a nuke where the account goes but the posts stay up.

Neutron Bomb? (remember those?)

[WOSG]

"This is not a debating society."

huh? That is exactly what I come to FR *for*.

I dont want this to be DU, but I think diversity of views should be accepted to some extent or it becomes uninteresting.
boring.

[The Westerner]

Agreed. When I first started lurking here in 1998, there was little deleted. It was extremely instructive to watch the intellectual debates, which always disolved into pure entertainment. Some of the humor is sorely missed.

[The Westerner]

"It seems to me that his second remark was a factual correction of some sort. As a true conservative, I want the facts. I'd look at a correction like that and think "ok, someone here is wrong." Then I'd do some quick research and figure out what the truth really was.

I haven't looked at this matter, so I don't know where the truth lies, but it does disturb me that the reply was yanked. Any attempt to set facts straight should be given consideration unless it is a blatant misinformation. I look at that post and it doesn't seem like blatant misinformation. "

What you say.

[185JHP]

The leftist desideratum is that no one insists: "2 + 2 = 4. Not 3, not 5, not 3.99999 - 4." They want feeling and motivation to rule. And their "moral refinement" and "understanding" to be the justification for their pronunciamentos being unquestioned - in fact unquestionable per se.

[gcruse]

FreeRepublic must be extremely effective to elicit this response
 One would expect the attacks to grow as we get nearer to election time.

No one is protesting the message. 

Deleting posts and banning newbies who don't march to our drums isn't
being effective, if by that you mean winning hearts and
minds.  It's being afraid to hear what you don't want to hear
because YOU might end up being changed.

FreeRepublic must be extremely effective to elicit this response
 One would expect the attacks to grow as we get nearer to election time.

No one is protesting the message. 

Deleting posts and banning newbies who don't march to our drums isn't
being effective, if by that you mean winning hearts and
minds.  It's being afraid to hear what you don't want to hear
because YOU might end up being changed.

[DeepDish]

Not aimed at you in particularly or even generally. At this site most posters work to protect freedom of speech, not practice it.

I look at DU trolls as rice burner riders who stroll in to a Harley bar and start badmouthing the Harleys. The coroner almost always rules the incident a suicide.

[Fred Mertz]

I feel more free talking with my office-mates, than I do expressing my views here.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Looks like this felixrayman is a silly person. He could not constrain himself and engage in discourse? He can only promote his site and his candidate? The majority of issues are above politics.

If it's a requirement to cheer the President and no input is allowed on issues then I won't be allowed here very long if President Bush kowtows to one demand of Mexico's corrupt government. He's doing pretty good otherwise.

Others have already answered but.. felixrayman claimed to just want to correct "factual errors." wow.

To wit, "Actually it's pretty obvious that the capture of Saddam hasn't made the world safer...."

In the context of barring Saddam from ever returning to power and freeing Iraqis of that fear and therefore encouraging them to come forward with more information - it certainly has made the world safer. Just being permanently rid of his regime is enough. For example, less payoffs to the families of suicide bombers against Israeli women and children.

The Vermont budget thing, that's why God gave us google. Good work. It happens here all the time. Does he want a medal?

The Constitution and slavery thing. It was changed well over a hundred years ago. Though I would welcome a link to a good, non-partisan discussion of the original Constitution and slavery.

The reference to the German government, whether it's Hitler's Germany or East Germany, they were both SOCIALIST governments. The socialists murdered an estimated 100 million of their fellow citizens last century. His comments were deleted from a privately owned and managed enterprise, not a government entity. Others do the same. It is fair.

If felixrayman can still post here I welcome his replies.

[RaceBannon]

JimRob bought Cher's House??

[ovrtaxt]

I look at DU trolls as rice burner riders who stroll in to a Harley bar and start badmouthing the Harleys. The coroner almost always rules the incident a suicide.

That's brilliant!

[Elsie]

"Only the LEAD sled dog gets a change in scenery."

[Elsie]

Da'Tare! The cloaking generator has failed AGAIN!