Colleges Struggle to Help Black Men Stay Enrolled

NY Times ^ | December 30, 2003 | KAREN W. ARENSON

[bobsatwork]

"class discussions veered from little things, like ways to remember to bring books to school..." My sons were also involved in such discussions. The discussions started in third grade, and ended in fifth. I entered college in 1969, and watched first-hand as "equal opportunity" destroyed Americas higher education network.

[wtc911]

You just lost me with all your whitey ranting. Educated, motivated, disciplined, good for you. Still seeing things in a way that have you throwing around phrases like "whitey's bandwagon" and "whitey has brainwashed you" and you get the same reaction OBL got from BCM's brother at the garden.

[SupplySider]

See my post about LBJ.

I could not agree more. As horribly misguided as LBJs racist policies were, at least one might say he was hoping for a different result. I have nothing but contempt for the modern Democrat party, exemplified by Ted Kennedy and the Clintons, who KNOW what these polices have done and care more about their personal ambitions.

[Kelly4023]

Coming to the defense of radiohead is inded admirable; chivalry is not dead. I don't know what schools you went to, but one of the common complaints many of US Black People voiced over the years is "where do we fit in history, American or otherwise?" My instruction in American history was very white-washed, with the great accomplishments and vision of our (?) Founding fathers, (many of whom owned slaves), our captians of industry, our great explorers, topped off with our great savior and emancipator, Abe Lincoln. Sorry, I forgot to mention Fredrick Douglass, possibly the greatest manifestation of integrity and strength in the entire American 19th century. Ol' Freddie got a few lines, here and there, along with G.W. Carver. What about the rest of the population? Voting? Land holding? Education? INTEGRATION?
ACCUMULATION OF WEALTH? Get the idea?
THAT was MY personal experience.

I had ONE teacher who lost a few friends in Viet Nam who REALLY told it like it was: the battle in this country is for the young person's MIND. Once controlled, you can do what you want with him/her.

I added that statement to say to you, yes, you make your own decisions. You are indeed the product of your own decisions. Any one of us who has accomplished anything knows this. Many of us who have nothing know this also. My point is that you like any one can only make a decision based on what ever knowledge you have acquired up to that point. If, like the author of the original atrticle stated, the only exposure to education or advanced learning has been delivered by skill-less or uninterested teachers, in places where the standards have been tremendously lowered, or has been regarded as a waste of time, many of the old thought processes have to be stripped away before any real progress can be made. Remember when it was common knowledge that YOU COULDN'T GIVE A WHITE PERSON A BLOOD TRANSFUSION WITH A BLACK PERSON'S BLOOD? or When Black people just didn't have the intellectual capacities to perform higher mathematical functions? Times changed as information became available. Times changed as the subtle messages to the various ethnic groups were refuted and disclaimed. BUT: That doesn't mean that the messages that were sent did not exist, and that the repercussions of some of those those messages still don't exist today. Ever ask a cop friend if racial profiling actually exists?

One thing I notice about this site: anytime someone wants to say something derogatory about Black people, the racists and handkerchief heads come out and applaud the clear vision of the poster. RARELY, if at all, do i see any refutations. Why is that?

As Always:
"K"

[Kelly4023]

I am an American Citizen who was raised with the ideals and vision I was taught by the American Society that nurtured me. I attended private schools, and served in the United States Navy. You tell me what I am.

As Always:
"K"

[Kelly4023]

Thank You. God looked out for me. I worked very hard. I thought I was going out of my mind during that period.
Thanks Again.

As Always:
"K"

[Kelly4023]

Say What? In this American Society? You must have it wrong.
Those kids are just unruly, have had poor parenting, have no respect, and probably have shiftless slackers for fathers, if the fathers are even around!

This Society will not tolerate that sort of treatment of children! Those parents are just looking for some one to blame for their failure!

Do I sound like a "Freeper" now?

A female friend has mentioned the same thing. Kid can read, write, count, ect. This is in New York, too.

Funny, I could read at 3, count up to 100 at 4, add and subtract multiple digits (pretty well) at 6, went to the "Catholic" school, and suddenly, according to one teacher, couldn't do a damn thing AND was a discipline problem!

I guess it was me though.

As Always:
"K"

[dirtboy]

While most of these problems are common to disadvantaged minority students regardless of sex, black men have the special burden of being pigeonholed early in a way that black female students are not.

Actually, I would venture the greatest problem is that most black males who try to succeed academically in high school are labelled as "acting white" - conversely, Asian kids generally outperform white kids because their youth culture emphasizes academic achievement instead of trivializing it or denegrating it.

[biblewonk]

Colleges Struggle to Help Black Men Stay Enrolled

I'm picturing the scene in the movie Trading Places when the 2 brothers have Valentine in their car and are trying to get him to stay with them. They offer cigars, money and all the booze he wants.

[dirtboy]

I think that you are correct in responding to some of the generalizations stated on this thread. However, the racial debate in this country too often descends into both sides pointing fingers at each other, instead of examining their own respective culpabilities for the situation at hand. Yes, there are still vestiges of racism, both institutional and individual - but there are also serious pathologies within elements of the black community that can only be addressed by that community and are not the fault of others. And some of these pathologies are shared - blacks youths, and to a somewhat lesser extent, white youths, tend to belittle their peers who are trying to succeed academically. I know because I faced that kind of negative pressure as a kid and saw it around me. And that's why Asians are kicking our collective rumps academically - their kids encourage each other academically.

It's a long, slow, difficult process to make cultural changes - but IMO it's the only change that will truly address the academic problems discussed here.

[hotdogjones]

Lots of racism still exists.
I know one of my African American buddies who has a PHD is physics tells of all the stories about the systematic discrimination in the sciences field. He is a big guy, goes into interviews and people don't believe he has a PHD in Physics. They say "How can this be". The outsourcing that is going on in IT happened in the sciences field in the 1980's. When African American males see what happens to their old counter parts with high employment they say why bother. Lots of them decide to go into other fields.

Same thing happens when you show up for an interview for a high skilled software development job. Very surprising to see the expression of folks faces when they see that you are African American. Fun to have been on interviews where they try to find something you don't know. They pick and pick and continue to dig. I can remember one time back in the mid 90's getting one of those SRA/IQ tests. The HR manager would sit down and grade the test and was shocked that I got most of the answers correct.

It is a lot of fun to disprove alot of the stereo types out there. I also get laughs when they say "You are a Black Republican", lol. I told that I converted after listening and reading Rush's stuff.

[YankeeGirl]

ER has black medical students & doctors (male & female); the Law & Order shows have black cops, DAs & lawyers; The Practice has a black senior partner. And that's from the few shows I watch. There may be others on shows I don't watch.

[biblewonk]

Lots of racism still exists.>

You're right about that. I moved into a very diverse neighborhood about 10 years ago due to my financial situation. This is the part of CR Ia where most blacks live. I am amazed at how much hate I can get be being white and simply walking to the local convenient store for a Pepsi. Why? because I am white. Everyone is a bigot, black or white, male or female, smart or dumb, homely or hottie.

My previous experience with blacks was the Army and it was a very different experience. I had many friends who were black. I expected the same in my hometown. It didn't work out though.

An odd common denominator seem to be employment though. I find that I am not very likely to get that "I hate your white ass" attitude from blacks that have jobs. It's amazing what employment does to one's self esteem.

PS. I wanted a PHD in physics when I was in Highschool but I didn't know how to pay for college so I joined the Army instead.

[pbear8]

he was troubled by his recent attempt to buy his brother a birthday present at Tiffany's. He said he had had trouble attracting a salesclerk's attention.

It's not just him, I went into Tiffany's with a girlfriend who was looking for styles of engagement rings that she might like. She asked to see one and held it for me to see as well. I was interested in the clarity and asked the sales lady if they had a loupe I could use. She said "no". Imagine a jewelry store without a loupe, what a joke. I would never buy anything at Tiffany's.

[Walkingfeather]

I wonder if some of the anti male rhetoric on campus drives black men out of the class room more?

[mhking]

One thing I notice about this site: anytime someone wants to say something derogatory about Black people, the racists and handkerchief heads come out and applaud the clear vision of the poster. RARELY, if at all, do i see any refutations. Why is that?

The smart-assed answer that immediately comes to my mind is that you don't see it because you don't pay attention.

There are those of us who do take issue with those who make derogatory comments.

I can't speak for everyone at FR. But what I can tell you is that like any community, there are all types of people on FR. There are those who paint all blacks with a broad brush, and those who are more inclined to deal with indivduals as opposed to generalities.

There are some people here with whom I choose not to converse with on a regular basis, due to their proclivities. As long as I stay upwind of 'em, I don't have to deal with 'em.

There are some windmills that I refuse to battle, and other points that I take issue with regularly.

And while we're at it - the term "handkerchief head" that you use (ostensibly to refer to blacks who refuse to take issue with what you percieve as racist comments), is, in and of itself offensive and racist.

Personally, I'd prefer that you not use it.

Getting back to some of your other points, I was lucky enough to have parents who emphasized history, in and of itself. In my home town, black history was pushed. Of course the primary focus was during "black history month" (i.e., February), but my teachers made sure that we knew that OUR history was part of AMERICAN history.

There are important milestones in American history that were fostered by blacks. We should be proud of those moments, just as we should be proud of milestones that are not tied specifically to blacks.

Does this mean ignoring our "cultural" heritage? Not at all. Much as Americans of Polish descent take great pride in the contributions of Revolutionary War hero Cashmir Pulaski (for example), so should we in the accomplishments of blacks throughout history.

This does not, on the other hand, mean that we should wallow in the bad times and misfortunes that our forefathers endured. That is one of the biggest mistakes that black America perpetuates today.

Unfortunately, due to that overall "mistake", many of today's youth; including those in primarily black schools; have no clue as to who some of the American accomplishments belong to - even if the person in question is black. There were many scientists, businessmen, farmers, educators, or in other words, many people who contributed (and contribute) to the American experience who are black. They should be celebrated as Americans.

Do racial problems like profiling exist? Certainly. Are there individuals who think of terms solely based upon race? Absolutely.

But that does not count for most of America. Progress has been made. But to hear some tell it, we are just as bad off today as we were 150 years ago. They prefer to wallow in their inadequacies as opposed to acknowledging and continuing the progress already made.

I believe in the good in people -- all people. Good is not a racial construct. It is not limited to one race or another.

And I do my best to be good - to be as Christ-like as I can - to, and with, all people. I want my children to have more than I had. I want to leave this world a better place than when I entered it. I want my children to understand and know where we as a people came from and how far we have come. I want my children to be a positive part of the America to come.

In terms of education, this means that I - as a parent - must take an active part. That is my responsibility. No one else's. And I expect no less than that from any other parent.

Now, if that makes me a bad person - a "handkerchief head" to use your description - then the problems in America run far deeper than any addressed here.

[rdb3]

Say, this is an agent provocateur.

You'll have to handle this one.

[freedumb2003]

Bookmarked and bumped.

I think this post is a great summary of what I have seen from you and rdb and others on the difficulties and challenges and positives of being a black conesrvative.

I know there is no way I can comprehend the black experience (although I was raised in poverty so at least I understand some of the socio-economic issues for disadvantaged [not to suggest that all blacks are disadvantaged but that is a frequently observed observation]) but I appreciate what you do to keep us informed.

It is unfortunate this is not disseminated wider in the black community to help overcome the issues described in this article and on this thread.

Tough to fight against professional victimologists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

OTOH some of the responses we get do have an ugly undertone that is unworthy of FR.

[neverdem]

I entered college in 1969, and watched first-hand as "equal opportunity" destroyed Americas higher education network.

Somehow this thread lingered in limbo, and I woke up to find it this morning while I was having my first coffee. I didn't remember I originally posted it. Talk about a blast from the past.

I could have gone to City College of New York(CCNY) in 1969, but I chose to join the Army. At the time CCNY had free tuition, but they accepted students on a competitve basis only. CCNY at that time was second only to Harvard in producing Nobel Prizes.

The big demand at CCNY from the left at the time was for "Open Admissions", i.e. take almost any student who wanted to go there, even if they needed remedial education. Eventually, I'm not sure exactly when, the City University administration finally acceded and began "Open Admissions" in all the four year colleges of the university, although the real demand for the new policy was for the more reputable colleges, e.g. City, Hunter and Queens, IIRC.

I started at CCNY in 1972 mainly because it had a good Science Department and was only about three miles from where I grew up in northern Manhattan. Free tuition ended about 3.5 years later, and the school lost its reputation for academic excellence. Only recent years have seen attempts to restore the reputation of CCNY.

What the left hath wrought.

[neverdem]

It is a lot of fun to disprove alot of the stereo types out there. I also get laughs when they say "You are a Black Republican", lol. I told that I converted after listening and reading Rush's stuff.

LOL, and you have my congratulations on your achievements. Happy New Year!!!