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Why They Fear Us
The Rational Argumentator ^ | December 26, 2003 | Henry Emrich

Posted on 12/30/2003 10:29:35 AM PST by G. Stolyarov II

One of the most vexing problems that I have encountered in my experiences with Objectivism, is the fact that many people seem deathly afraid of our viewpoint – EVEN people with whom we should have most in common. They just don't seem to be able to understand it, even if we explain it patiently and calmly. Everything we say gets systematically distorted into something horrible. This used to bother me quite a lot, and still does to some degree. But I have come to a conclusion after a VERY long time thinking about it:

When people misunderstand what Objectivism is, and the things for which we stand, many of them are simply ignorant, NOT willfully antagonistic.

Take, for example, a situation that will doubtless be VERY common to most Objectivists: the issue of religion, and atheism. Whenever I would make statements to the effect that I didn't (and still don't), believe the Judeo-Christian mythology, everybody would go into emotional meltdown: their powers of reason would mysteriously disappear.

You can't really blame them, however. Most "Believers" (in whatever religion), simply don't understand, or think about, their religion very deeply. They are "religious" enough that atheism makes them nervous, but actually have very little understanding of the Bible, Koran, or whatever "holy book" they believe.

Most people don't really understand what Christianity means by "God". They have no idea that the concept makes no sense, as their religion teaches it. To them, "God" is somewhere between Santa Claus and Uncle Sam – a benevolent, strong, heroic Father figure "in the sky". Most of them have only a vague notion of heaven, and no interest in hell whatsoever.

When confronted with the works of Thomas Paine, Robert G. Ingersoll, or Ayn Rand, they honestly do not understand how those critiques of religion could apply to them. And can you REALLY blame them? After all, as we all know, most of the Christian Clergy THEMSELVES don't know half of how bloody and evil parts of the Bible are.

Most "Christians" in this country (and others) couldn't care less about the bible. The only parts of it they know halfway clearly are the "Christmas story", and the Easter thing. They understand the "ten commandments" in a very rudimentary, common sense way. They don't CARE that the "thou shalt not steal" thing is an injunction against stealing your neighbor's SLAVE. Most people honestly have no idea what the bible actually says, or what Christianity actually teaches.

They get terrified by "secular humanism" or "Godless atheists" because pretty much the only exposure to such things has been from socialists, communists, and suchlike. Hell, how do you think the destroyers of the United States were able to hoodwink people into putting "Under god" in the pledge of allegiance, in the first place? The sales-pitch was to make us different from the "Godless Commies". In the popular mind (controlled and shaped as it is by the "activists" and their social agendas), the concepts of Communism and Atheism were skillfully and secretly blended, so that the Common man can no longer tell one from the other.

This is part of what makes Conservatives useless, as I said. Most of them have no idea what their Bible teaches; nor will they listen. More often than not, when they DO find out, they get every bit as disgusted as we do, and worse: you ever wonder where all those preachy "born-again atheist" sites come from?

Same thing with capitalism: what most people in this culture mistakenly think of as capitalism is the lukewarm, state-entangled version: government-backed monopolies, licensing, franchises, tariffs, etc. Most of these people have never tried (as I have), to start a business, or create their own wealth. They've all bought into the mediocrity-mentality that says the only way to make it is as somebody else's "employee". The Entrepreneurial spirit is mostly dead in them, and they see "their jobs" as nothing more than a means to continue subsisting at the same mediocre level.

Reason? Too hard. Easier to watch TV, and give a half-hearted appearance of a religion you don't understand, every Sunday.

Purpose? Work, sleep, watch TV, breed the next generation of slaves, and die in a pool of your own urine.

They haven't learned any better. The government-controlled schools specialize in killing off every trace of the heroic impulse. Generations of potential Howard Roarks are systematically processed into docile, conformist Keatings, by schools, families, and 'peer pressure'.

But ask yourself: having never had self-made goals, how can they be expected to be creatures of "self-made soul?"

It's actually rather heartbreaking, to consider the masses of living zombies lock-stepping through life, their only goal to keep up with the Joneses, afraid to stand taller than the crowd because "what will the neighbors think." It's horrifying.

These poor fools equate "Altruism" with goodheartedness, human warmth, and private charity. They've probably never read Comte, Bismarck, Hegel, or Marx, and barely even heard their names.

So what's the answer?

PATIENCE. Those of us who know a better way MUST stand for it, and MUST reach out to them. Otherwise, this entire world is as good as dead.

So "professional philosophers" don't take Objectivism or Rand very seriously? Screw 'em. It's not ABOUT winning over Academia, in the long run. It's about reclaiming the Human Spirit from its destroyers, and getting people do understand that they DO have a right to exist, and they DO have a right to resist their Masters. We are a slave rebellion, friends: an "Underground railroad" of the Human Spirit.

Academia is a joke. Most so-called "philosophers" have deteriorated into gibbering wordplay, or convinced themselves they don't even exist. To think we're actually going to make headway there is wishful thinking at least, and suicidal at most.

The philosophical gangrene set in several centuries ago. We must ask ourselves: do we have 200 years to wait? Can we afford to let the wheels of history turn, and hope against all evidence that that the inhabitants of that time will still even be recognizably human in spirit and mind?

No. We don't have the time for that.

Even a cursory examination of history will reveal a pivotal fact; namely, that "paradigm shifts" – massive changes of gestalt thinking NEVER originate from WITHIN the old paradigm. In other words, history supports Miss Rand's premise that the "Mavericks" – the Roarks and Galts of the world – are the Atlas's who make the world turn.

So do not despair, friends. We must take up the torch, fight for all that is good and genuine and beautiful and true, and NEVER submit. "Second Renaissance" is eminently appropriate for an Objectivist bookstore's name, but it is ALSO – MUST be – our credo.

WE, and those of like mind, must be the heralds of a "new birth of freedom".

There's no other choice.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: altruism; aynrand; bible; bigotry; clergy; egoism; ignorance; objectivism; rand; reason; religion; routine; tradition; verbosity
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To: G. Stolyarov II
Did you even read the story you linked? The author does not make the claim that he has disproven the existence of God.

I have a hunch that you don't even have a definition for what "God" means.
161 posted on 12/30/2003 9:01:00 PM PST by thoughtomator ("I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid"-Qadafi)
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To: Hank Kerchief
Seems like their interest is bred of well deserved resentment - the article is a thousand word sneer. It's the kind of thing I expect from JF Kerry.
162 posted on 12/30/2003 9:02:26 PM PST by edsheppa
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To: sauropod
"...nor will I sanction their attempts to employ the coercive powers of the State to in any manner impede on anyone's religious freedom."

________________________

If the State were equally tolerant of all religions then I would agree with you.
-pod-








"...but I am a staunch supporter of full separation of Church and State."

_____________________________________

Itself an unConstitutional and unhistorical view.
50 -pod-





Your first reply belies your 2nd.

You say separation of Church and State is in itself an unConstitutional view. --

-- Then you turnabout and say; -- I will support sanctioning attempts to employ the coercive powers of the State to in any manner impede on anyone's religious freedom."

Your logic needs work.
163 posted on 12/30/2003 9:10:51 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but FRs flying monkey squad brings out me devils. Happy New Year!)
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To: G. Stolyarov II
You can't really blame them, however. Most "Believers" (in whatever religion), simply don't understand, or think about, their religion very deeply. They are "religious" enough that atheism makes them nervous, but actually have very little understanding of the Bible, Koran, or whatever "holy book" they believe.

What this silly Know-it-All doesn't get (and it's really a very common problem among Objectivist and non-Objectivist atheists alike, e.g., Richard Dawkins) is that the extreme condescension that they so frequently exhibit towards their purported inferiors is an important key to understanding their mindset. As Michael Novak so eloquently pointed out last week, "a nice irony is this: Whereas Christianity (and Judaism) can give atheists a dignified place within their own theory of religious liberty, it seems quite difficult for atheists such as Dawkins [or the author of the above piece] to assign religious people any place in their own theory other than the loony bin." Marion Montgomery took pains to make a similar point out in a beautiful essay in First Things some years back, "he [the atheist, in this case she was speaking of Dawkins] stands at a transcendent point, above both genes and body and mind, in a presumption of containing by his pronouncement an absolute comprehension of the nature of man. Thus he becomes an excellent illustration of what I shall call the provincial mind. Alas, his is an intellectual malady conspicuous among our intelligentsia: the modernist mind presuming intellectual autonomy beyond limit."

Atheists are the new hidebound bigots, and the condescension evident in the above excerpt (and throughout the whole essay, really) is a sign of it. They are now the ones who circumscribe their small intellectual province and defend it from all comers, fiercely shutting down any suggestion that some mysteries may remain outside their provincial walls.

164 posted on 12/30/2003 9:12:13 PM PST by beckett
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To: Hank Kerchief
The ability (and necessity) to create. A human being must create by productive effort what is required by his nature to live and enjoy his life as a human being. What is required for a human to live and enjoy his life is not provided by nature. Nature provides the resources, but discovering those resources and how to use them to fulfill his desires, and the act of finding and using them is productive effort.

A man may choose not to fulfill the requirements of his psychological nature, but he cannot live normally that way. It is not normal for a human being to live as a parasite, stealing or mooching from others who produce what his life requires, like a bloodsucker or louse. It is not normal for a human being to live as a pet or a slave of others, living on handouts from those he acts to please. It is not normal for a human being to live like a plant, depending on accident or luck, waiting for nature, fortune, or God to provide the things he needs to live and enjoy his life. These ways of living are normal for some organism, because it is their nature, it is not man's nature, however, and no man living contrary to his nature can live successfully or enjoy his life.

Any conclusion is easily reached when you start from a compatible premise a priori. Clear observable evidence not only does not support the contention above, but it directly contradicts it. Modern societies might be affluent enough to make the above true, but primitive tribal man depended dramatically on the group for survival. Individualism is a luxury of the comfortable (one reason we should be attempting to raise the standard of living for everyone). Humanity has always lived as parasites, whether from the land, the animals inhabiting it, or the other poor bastards who lived there first. Would this be true in a "perfect world"? Of course not. But you are the one who emphasizes observation, and history disproves your theory wholeheartedly. Show me the "normal" society based on the above dictums in history!

What makes America great is that it is decidedly NOT normal. It is a sparkling blip in human history; one of the few moments when human beings can live in freedom and prosperity. The idea that somehow freedom is "normal" smacks of the philosophies of the left, which declare that any change to the traditions and institutions of America can be made without destroying what makes America so unique in human history. Freedom is not "normal", which is why it is so precious!

Both your definition of "normal" and of "human nature" are incredibly arbitrary, and are based on philosophical theory, not "observation." All humanity might yearn to be free (in fact, most people don't... the pack instinct we inherited from our distant ancestors still manefests itself in myriad ways), but most are content to live within the bounds of society. Many will even reject freedom, as freedom is often less comfortable and less secure. That is why oppressive governments are so easily established and so long maintained, even by those who are oppressed. Your "observations", sir, are fantasy...

165 posted on 12/30/2003 9:12:55 PM PST by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Say "NO!" to Rousseau!)
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To: G. Stolyarov II
I think what you are missing is that the United States had placed the Constitution (theoretically, anyway) into the role of absolute monarch in the Hobbesian description.

The defense of Locke has much in common with every other Objectivist assertion. There is not a snowball's chance in Hell that it will ever be tested in the real world, and therefore the fantasy can be cherished forever.

But even taking it at face value, it runs up against a major problem in the context of claiming that God does not exist: If God does not exist, from where do Lockean rights originate?

In the Hobbesian viewpoint, one does not even need to consider God in the equation. Rights are those things without which man reverts to the natural state of war. So while one could ascribe to a Hobbesian viewpoint and be atheist, I do not see how one can consistently ascribe to the Lockean viewpoint without a Creator to invest the human being with rights. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence does espouse a Lockean theory (one that is, by the way, perfectly consistent with the Hobbesian theory) and explicitly names the Creator as the source of those rights.
166 posted on 12/30/2003 9:13:11 PM PST by thoughtomator ("I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid"-Qadafi)
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To: G. Stolyarov II
Nothing bigoted about it. You assume far too much.

I would no more listen to an Atheist preach on Christianity than I would listen to a Garbage Collector preach on Neuclear Fusion.

The garbage man knows as much about Neuclear Fusion as Atheists know about Christianity.

BTW, just an FYI, for some of us Christianity is a relationship, not a Religion.

Religion is man bringing God down to Man's level. I have no desire to do that.

I'm a Sinner, forgiven by God through the Blood of Jesus Christ his son. I did not a thing to earn that, I deserve hell as much as any man. The only difference is that I accepted God's Free Gift of Salvation. A gift I don't deserve. But his Love for all mankind made it possible. He paid the price, I didn't. If the Atheist does not wish or choose to believe that, then he is totally within his rights and I will not try to convince him otherwise.

That's all I'm saying, no need to get huffy about it :)
167 posted on 12/30/2003 9:13:57 PM PST by Leatherneck_MT (Those who do not accept peaceful change make a violent bloody revolution inevitable.)
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To: thoughtomator
The answer to that is because if they did then they were conquered and destroyed by a Hobbesian nation, thus demonstrating the superiority of Hobbes' view of the state of nature.

Only for rather narrow definitions of "superior".

168 posted on 12/30/2003 9:46:53 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: tortoise
"Survival" may be a narrow criterion, but it's not one we should be willing to drop from the list of requirements.
169 posted on 12/30/2003 9:47:57 PM PST by thoughtomator ("I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid"-Qadafi)
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To: esopman
I can speak as a 61-year old former atheist who has come, by the grace of Messiah, Y'shua, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, into a relationship with the Lord. Relationship of love and grace - not merely a 'religion.'

Please, do not take this is flamebait...but how do you know that your 'relationship' is little more than a feeling of contentment based on belief (regardless of accuracy)? As Nietzsche said to the old man in the forest, I should go quickly, lest I take something away from you, but I know the grace of which you speak, however, I often wonder if that is direct knowledge or some other phenomena.

If you choose to answer, I thank you for your time.
170 posted on 12/31/2003 3:44:40 AM PST by dyed_in_the_wool ("Have we actually cut the head of the snake or is he just an idiot hiding in a hole?")
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Comment #171 Removed by Moderator

To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)
I decided not to answer you point-by-point, because we have a confusion of terms. You have confused "normal" with average, usual, or common. That is, I admit, the most frequent meaning, but in biology and when dealing with life, normal means compatible with the nature of a thing.

What I was describing are the requirements of human nature to live according to that nature. There was no contention that most men do it, or even try to. Most people spend their entire lives living in defiance of the requirements of their own nature, and the results are obvious in our society today, and in the world throughout history. In that sense, you are right that America as "abnormal" (in the usual, common, sense), but in the sense that it is the first place in history where men were free to fully and completely live normally, that is, true to the requirements of there rational volitional nature, it is the exhibition of what men are when completely sane and normal. Even in America, most men sell their freedom to the first religion or politician who comes along promising them security and easy answers.

Both your definition of "normal" and of "human nature" are incredibly arbitrary ...

Since aristotle, man has been "arbitrarily" defined as the rational animal, and rationalaity is only an aspect of that which really distinguishes man from all other creatures, the necessity and ability to choose all of one's behavior consciously. The observation that man's nature is volitional is hardly arbitrary, and certainly not original, being over 2000 years old.

Yes, most men do despise freedom. As George Barnard Shaw wrote, "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."

Hank

172 posted on 12/31/2003 5:16:25 AM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: mvpel
I find this same sort of attitude among pagans these days - they reject a caricature of Christianity.

The problem is that most people get their notions of Christianity from T.V.

Unfortunately, many Christians do too.

Shalom.

173 posted on 12/31/2003 5:29:42 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: sauropod
The Lord said, "Come. Let us reason together."

Amen! The LORD also provide much objective evidence. The fact that we have to read the accounts of eyewitnesses, rather than having been eyewitnesses ourselves, is an accident of time.

Shalom.

174 posted on 12/31/2003 5:31:46 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: Hank Kerchief
No, it is based on a book, that is an authority, not evidence. Anybody can write anything in a book.

Much of it is eyewitness testimony. To discredit it, you must have some reason. And that reason must be subjective as there is no extant writing to challenge the veracity of the authors.

How do you know what is "unknowable?"

Is the universe finite or infinite?

It is considered infinite because the data suggests so. But if it is, that is unprovable and unknowable. Also, if it is, the finite mind will not be able to grasp it.

Our instruments (eyes, ears, noses, minds) are faulty, therefore the best we have is a faulty understanding of the universe.

I am not critiquing Rand. I am critiquing the article as posted, and some of your own statements as posted.

Shalom.

175 posted on 12/31/2003 5:36:15 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: Hank Kerchief
I don't mind your preaching the Bible to me, but at least make it the Bible, not this Augustinian/Calvinistic nonsense about a sinful nature and two natures.

Er, make that "Augistinian/Calvinistic/Pauline nonsense"

Oops, Paul was in the Bible.

Not that I think the two natures have been fully explained on this thread, but the concept is definately Biblical. Your problem is that you have not fully understood James.

Shalom.

176 posted on 12/31/2003 5:38:15 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: Hank Kerchief
Since no religion has consistently opposed slavery, at least on that point, all religions are wrong.

And your proof of this statement?

Shalom.

177 posted on 12/31/2003 5:39:24 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: Hank Kerchief
Ayn Rand correctly repudiated Dascarte as a Skeptic. If Hayek really confused Descarte with Objective reason, he may safely be dismissed.

Just curious, since I haven't read much of her, but do you consider what Rand writes as gospel?

The mind is the only faculty we have for discovering and understanding truth and knowledge, and the process by which we discover knowledge is called reason.

The mind has known bugs. Therefore our reason is faulty at best. The quest is doomed before it starts.

Shalom.

178 posted on 12/31/2003 5:41:26 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: G. Stolyarov II
See the whole essay, a thorough defense of atheism, at

No thanks. This brief summation suggests that you don't understand enough of Christianity or the Bible. To then use attacks on Christianity as a defense of atheism must be beyond your grasp. Finally, to use attacks on religion as a defense of atheism you must not only attack all known religions, but all possible religions. That is beyond anyone.

Shalom.

179 posted on 12/31/2003 5:44:29 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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To: FierceDraka
And every bit of my personal ideology can be supported by cold, hard facts and reason.

You mean every bit of your personal ideology can be supported by your interpretation of cold, hard facts and your ability to reason.

Unless your interpretation is perfect, and your ability is perfect, your personal ideology can not be based on truth. And I know your ability is not perfect even if your interpretation is.

Shalom.

180 posted on 12/31/2003 5:47:53 AM PST by ArGee (Scientific reasoning makes it easier to support gross immorality.)
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