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Christmas is in the air, & F-16s, too
NY Daily News ^ | December 24, 2003 | GREG GITTRICH and DAVID SALTONSTALL

Posted on 12/24/2003 9:37:11 AM PST by presidio9

Ah, Christmas in New York. The tree in Rockefeller Center. Roasted chestnuts from street vendors. And F-16 fighter jets roaring overhead. Mayor Bloomberg confirmed yesterday that the NYPD has asked to have military jets patrol the skies over the city in response to the country's latest terrorism alert.

"We always have to err on the side of being cautious," Bloomberg told reporters. "That's what our security forces are supposed to do, so the rest of us can go and spend time with our families and enjoy life."

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly called it a "prudent" request. It remained unclear last night when the patrols would begin.

"I can't tell you when," Kelly added. "But as I said, we've begun the process to get them here. We are hopeful."

Gen. Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, confirmed plans for "additional air patrols over select cities," although he did not specify New York or any other city.

Kelly said the city's "Orange-plus" security clampdown will continue through the holidays.

"The message is that government and the Police Department [are] taking care of business," the commissioner said. "We live in a changed world as a result of Sept. 11. We have to do everything we can to protect the city."

That will include more plainclothes cops on the street, as well as tighter security at bridges, tunnels and "other sensitive locations," including the Financial District, midtown hotels and shopping areas, Kelly added.

City officials have estimated the anti-terrorism activities are costing $1 million a day - little of which will likely be paid for by the federal government.

That's because the allocation of about 80% of federal homeland security dollars is not based on threats, but on formulas that give small, rural states a big piece of the security pie.

Local lawmakers again blasted the formula yesterday, which grants New York $5.41 in federal security aid per person, compared with $38.31 for Wyoming.

"Without divulging any sensitive information, I can say I haven't seen a single intelligence report in which the terrorists talked about attacking Wyoming," Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey; US: New York
KEYWORDS: cap; christmas; nyc; orangealert4; orangechristmas; threat
Merry Christmas to the brave servicemen protecting our homeland.
1 posted on 12/24/2003 9:37:11 AM PST by presidio9
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To: presidio9
"Without divulging any sensitive information, I can say I haven't seen a single intelligence report in which the terrorists talked about attacking Wyoming," Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said.

Psst! Chuck, Wyoming, Montana, and The Dakotas are where the nukes are. Sorry to burst your bubble but there aren't any nuclear weapons in NYC.

2 posted on 12/24/2003 9:41:13 AM PST by CholeraJoe (Yo!! Beiswenger. Stay in the f*cking crease, fer crying out loud!)
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To: presidio9
"We live in a changed world as a result of Sept. 11. We have to do everything we can to protect the city."

Except the freedom to arm themselves.

3 posted on 12/24/2003 9:42:43 AM PST by TomServo ("This can't be Wisconsin! There aren't any signs for Tommy Bartlett's water show.")
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To: CholeraJoe
Sorry to burst your bubble but there aren't any nuclear weapons in NYC

Let's hope you're correct.

4 posted on 12/24/2003 9:42:57 AM PST by RoughDobermann (Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.)
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To: CholeraJoe
Typical lib doublespeak comparing apples to oranges.

Idiocy talking about "per capita" spending in such a way.
5 posted on 12/24/2003 9:45:54 AM PST by Gabz (Merry Christmas all)
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To: StarFan; Dutchy; alisasny; Black Agnes; BobFromNJ; BUNNY2003; Cacique; Clemenza; Coleus; cyborg; ...
ping!

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my infrequent ‘miscellaneous’ ping list.

6 posted on 12/24/2003 9:47:15 AM PST by nutmeg (Land of the Free – Thanks to the Brave)
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To: presidio9
Hey Schumer here's a clue: Approve Bush's judges and maybe they might up that figure!
7 posted on 12/24/2003 10:02:38 AM PST by princess leah
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To: presidio9
those pilots are lucky..im sure the sights of all the lights from above on christmas eve really is something

me,ill have to settle for flight simulator 98 (ill be flying around detroit in my VF-11 F-18)

8 posted on 12/24/2003 10:29:48 AM PST by MetalHeadConservative35 (what the heck! its 2003 !! wheres my jetsons car!!! (and yes democrats still cause cancer)
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To: presidio9
I wonder where those air patrols are at the moment. I live near a small airport outside Philadelphia. For 3 days after 9/11/01 the sky was full of military aircraft. I haven't seen any lately, and it's giving me the creeps. Maybe I'm just a paranoid old woman, but I'd sleep better tonight if I could hear those patrol planes. It would be more soothing than rain on the awning.
9 posted on 12/24/2003 9:07:07 PM PST by BykrBayb (Temporary tagline. Applied to State of New Jersey for permanent tagline.)
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To: BykrBayb
50-60K feet and probly running silent (no strobes)
10 posted on 12/24/2003 9:21:21 PM PST by ChefKeith (NASCAR...everything else is just a game!)
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To: BykrBayb
Me, too! I've got a direct view of the Washington Monument, and I haven't seen any F16s since after 9/11. Also, no usual Capitol Park Police helicopters.
11 posted on 12/24/2003 9:24:29 PM PST by japaneseghost
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To: ChefKeith
50-60K feet and probly running silent (no strobes)

And how do they land and take off without anyone ever seeing or hearing them, even those of us who live near the airports? Have they figured out how to stay up for 2 years at a time without landing? And what about the helicopters they were using after 9-11? I heard them constantly for 3 days after 9-11, and haven't heard them since. They were very loud. If they were anywhere near here, I would hear them. I'm surrounded by swamps, with nothing to buffer the noise. Take my word for it, they aren't invisible, they aren't quiet, and they aren't here.

12 posted on 12/24/2003 10:36:36 PM PST by BykrBayb (Temporary tagline. Applied to State of New Jersey for permanent tagline.)
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To: CholeraJoe; presidio9; RoughDobermann; Gabz; princess leah
About.com

Population-
New York = 18,976,457
Wyoming = 493,782

Federal Funding for security-
New York = $102,662,632
Wyoming = $ 18,916,788

Simple Math = Chuck Schumer is an idiot

13 posted on 12/24/2003 11:19:16 PM PST by chudogg (www.chudogg.blogspot.com)
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To: BykrBayb
My view is that the Park Police (who everyday run helicopters all over the DC metro area) are told to be out of sight to "clear the air" in the event of any strange aircraft over DC, so that there would be no confusion as to where any strange aircraft is.

I'm used to the sounds of choppers overhead. I can tell the difference between the sounds of Army choppers vs. Park Police choppers. Strangely quiet.

14 posted on 12/25/2003 8:57:57 AM PST by japaneseghost
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To: nutmeg; Clemenza; firebrand; hellinahandcart; RaceBannon; rmlew

TO ALL MY FELLOW FREEPERS

MERRY CHRISTMAS!! HAPPY HANUKAH OR WHATEVER YOU CELEBRATE.

YOU ARE WELCOME TO VISIT MY 10TH ANNUAL CHRISTMAS PAGE

HERE


15 posted on 12/25/2003 9:01:08 AM PST by Cacique
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To: BykrBayb
They don't have to use an airfield near Your location. F-16 can beat-cheeks if needed, see below and with air to air refueling the only limitations are the crew stamina or the need to re-arm weapons points.

Go out in the yard and measure out the size of one and then think about seeing it without any optical gear when it is at 50k+ altitude going 500-1500MPH and painted in sky cammo (light grey on the bottom)

Length: 49 feet, 5 inches (14.8 meters)
Height: 16 feet (4.8 meters)
Wingspan: 32 feet, 8 inches (9.8 meters)
Speed: 1,500 mph (Mach 2 at altitude)
Ceiling: Above 50,000 feet (15 kilometers)
Range: More than 2,000 miles ferry range (1,740 nautical miles)


F-16 FIGHTING FALCON (picture link)
http://www.af.mil/search/media.asp?mediaID=4084

Fact Sheet

Mission
The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a compact, multi-role fighter aircraft. It is highly maneuverable and has proven itself in air-to-air combat and air-to-surface attack. It provides a relatively low-cost, high-performance weapon system for the United States and allied nations.

Features
In an air combat role, the F-16's maneuverability and combat radius (distance it can fly to enter air combat, stay, fight and return) exceed that of all potential threat fighter aircraft. It can locate targets in all weather conditions and detect low flying aircraft in radar ground clutter. In an air-to-surface role, the F-16 can fly more than 500 miles (860 kilometers), deliver its weapons with superior accuracy, defend itself against enemy aircraft, and return to its starting point. An all-weather capability allows it to accurately deliver ordnance during non-visual bombing conditions.

In designing the F-16, advanced aerospace science and proven reliable systems from other aircraft such as the F-15 and F-111 were selected. These were combined to simplify the airplane and reduce its size, purchase price, maintenance costs and weight. The light weight of the fuselage is achieved without reducing its strength. With a full load of internal fuel, the F-16 can withstand up to nine G's -- nine times the force of gravity -- which exceeds the capability of other current fighter aircraft.

The cockpit and its bubble canopy give the pilot unobstructed forward and upward vision, and greatly improved vision over the side and to the rear. The seat-back angle was expanded from the usual 13 degrees to 30 degrees, increasing pilot comfort and gravity force tolerance. The pilot has excellent flight control of the F-16 through its "fly-by-wire" system. Electrical wires relay commands, replacing the usual cables and linkage controls. For easy and accurate control of the aircraft during high G-force combat maneuvers, a side stick controller is used instead of the conventional center-mounted stick. Hand pressure on the side stick controller sends electrical signals to actuators of flight control surfaces such as ailerons and rudder.

Avionics systems include a highly accurate inertial navigation system in which a computer provides steering information to the pilot. The plane has UHF and VHF radios plus an instrument landing system. It also has a warning system and modular countermeasure pods to be used against airborne or surface electronic threats. The fuselage has space for additional avionics systems.

Background
The F-16A, a single-seat model, first flew in December 1976. The first operational F-16A was delivered in January 1979 to the 388th Tactical Fighter Wing at Hill Air Force Base, Utah.

The F-16B, a two-seat model, has tandem cockpits that are about the same size as the one in the A model. Its bubble canopy extends to cover the second cockpit. To make room for the second cockpit, the forward fuselage fuel tank and avionics growth space were reduced. During training, the forward cockpit is used by a student pilot with an instructor pilot in the rear cockpit.

All F-16s delivered since November 1981 have built-in structural and wiring provisions and systems architecture that permit expansion of the multirole flexibility to perform precision strike, night attack and beyond-visual-range interception missions. This improvement program led to the F-16C and F-16D aircraft, which are the single- and two-place counterparts to the F-16A/B, and incorporate the latest cockpit control and display technology. All active units and many Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve units have converted to the F-16C/D.

The F-16 was built under an unusual agreement creating a consortium between the United States and four NATO countries: Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands and Norway. These countries jointly produced with the United States an initial 348 F-16s for their air forces. Final airframe assembly lines were located in Belgium and the Netherlands. The consortium's F-16s are assembled from components manufactured in all five countries. Belgium also provides final assembly of the F100 engine used in the European F-16s. Recently, Portugal joined the consortium. The long-term benefits of this program will be technology transfer among the nations producing the F-16, and a common-use aircraft for NATO nations. This program increases the supply and availability of repair parts in Europe and improves the F-16's combat readiness.

USAF F-16 multi-mission fighters were deployed to the Persian Gulf in 1991 in support of Operation Desert Storm, where more sorties were flown than with any other aircraft. These fighters were used to attack airfields, military production facilities, Scud missiles sites and a variety of other targets.

Most recently in the Spring of 1999 during Operation Allied Force, USAF F-16 multi-mission fighters flew a variety of missions to include suppression of enemy air defense, offensive counter air, defensive counter air, close air support and forward air controller missions. Mission results were outstanding as these fighters destroyed radar sites, vehicles, tanks, MiGs and buildings.

General Characteristics
Primary Function: Multirole fighter
Builder: Lockheed Martin Corp.
Power Plant: F-16C/D: one Pratt and Whitney F100-PW-200/220/229 or General Electric F110-GE-100/129
Thrust: F-16C/D, 27,000 pounds
Length: 49 feet, 5 inches (14.8 meters)
Height: 16 feet (4.8 meters)
Wingspan: 32 feet, 8 inches (9.8 meters)
Speed: 1,500 mph (Mach 2 at altitude)
Ceiling: Above 50,000 feet (15 kilometers)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 37,500 pounds (16,875 kilograms)
Range: More than 2,000 miles ferry range (1,740 nautical miles)
Armament: One M-61A1 20mm multibarrel cannon with 500 rounds; external stations can carry up to six air-to-air missiles, conventional air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions and electronic countermeasure pods
Unit cost: F-16A/B , $14.6 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars); F-16C/D,$18.8 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars)
Crew: F-16C, one; F-16D, one or two
Date Deployed: January 1979

Point of Contact
Air Combat Command,Public Affairs Office; 115 Thompson St., Ste. 211; Langley AFB, Va. 23665-1987; DSN 574-5014 or (757) 764-5014; e-mail: acc.pai@langley.af.mil

Helicopters are not of much use for taking on a hijacked airliner because of the speed difference. Even the fastest helicopters can't keep up with a jet doing 500MPH much less do anything about it.


16 posted on 12/25/2003 9:39:14 AM PST by ChefKeith (NASCAR...everything else is just a game!)
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To: japaneseghost
see post 16
17 posted on 12/25/2003 9:40:47 AM PST by ChefKeith (NASCAR...everything else is just a game!)
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To: japaneseghost
My view is that the Park Police (who everyday run helicopters all over the DC metro area) are told to be out of sight to "clear the air" in the event of any strange aircraft over DC, so that there would be no confusion as to where any strange aircraft is.

I'm used to the sounds of choppers overhead. I can tell the difference between the sounds of Army choppers vs. Park Police choppers. Strangely quiet.

If you can tell the difference, don't the think the experts can? Why would they be confused? I'm no expert, and I can't claim to know the names of the helicopters I heard for three days straight after 9-11, but I know they were military because my husband (retired Infantry) told me exactly what they were at the time. I also know I haven't heard them for two years. I don't hear them now. I don't know the names of the planes I saw flying over my house for three days straight after 9-11, but I know they were military because my husband told me exactly what every aircraft was. I can't remember their names, but I remember what they looked like and sounded like. I haven't seen or heard them for two years. Fine, maybe they've been landing and taking off at a different airport, and they're so far up by the time they fly over my house that I can't see them or hear them. Okay. That means somebody else is hearing them taking off and landing. Who? Has anyone out there seen or heard them? Somebody? Anybody? If not, does that mean they've just stayed up in the air for the last two years without landing? How do they do it? I do not believe they are patrolling our cities like they claim. And that scares me. I think they have them ready to take off at a moment's notice, which still does not give them enough time to react. I think this, and I think that, but I'm absolutely convinced they are not patrolling our cities like they claim. I wish somebody would give some information, any information that would suggest I'm wrong. I have to drop my only child off the airport in just a few hours.

18 posted on 12/27/2003 12:10:26 AM PST by BykrBayb (Temporary tagline. Applied to State of New Jersey for permanent tagline.)
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