Immigration and Security

The Wall Street Journal ^ | Wednesday, December 24, 2003

[presidio9]

Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge recently committed the political sin of telling the truth. His helpful candor has reopened a much-needed debate over immigration and exposed some of the specious arguments used by those who want to close U.S. borders.

[presidio9]

The specious link that protectionist have made between illegal immigration and national security is a lot like the one enviornmentalists made with nuclear power plants. Both arguments set off my BS detector in a big way. Neither position is honest. The goals of the enviornmentalists are clear. With immigration, I don't doubt that there are some misguided FReepers who think that they are being patriotic. Others are camoflaging racist opinions. All are pawns of a greater socialist agenda.

[Zipporah]

Mr. Ridge volunteered this month that the U.S. needs to "come to grips with the presence of eight to 12 million illegals" now in the country and "afford them some kind of legal status some way."

This has been in the works for a very long time.. funny, in Europe immigration is being pushed by the EU.. the same arguments are being touted.. now the question.. WHO or what group is pushing so hard for this.. and what is the motive.. I'd love to have some insight..

[judicial meanz]

Illegal immigrants do have a legal status:

They are committing a crime; therefore they are criminals who are evading arrest. ( unlawful entry into the United States)

They evade paying taxes: therefore they are tax evaders and have broken the law there. ( Tax Evasion)

They undercut Americans on jobs, no matter how supposedly menial and unwanted they jobs are; therefore they are an economic burden.

They use social services to cure the medical problems they have, inflating our social servics budgets to astronomical proportions.

Choose any legal status from the list above, or feel free to add yours.

[AbsoluteJustice]

Wonderful isn't it?

The cliche that immgrant advocacy groups try to use and push is that illegal pay taxes and they take jobs that noone else would take. This is an utter lie and HOGWASH!

Reference my link below onto how immigration LEGAL AND ILLEGAL is costing this country more than what is being put in. you do the math and tell me if this adds up. we are becoming a welfare nation in which even legal immigration needs reform. WE MUST ONLY allow those legal status IF and ONLY IF they are contributing to this nation and not taking from it.

Interesting read here
http://www.carryingcapacity.org/100000.html
and
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

[junta]

Save it, the open borders socialists themselves are losing the battle and shouting "racist" like a Jesse Jackasson only makes you seem as silly as them.

[presidio9]

Save it, the open borders socialists themselves

LOL, it is the socialists who want to close the borders. This policy goes hand-in-hand with the highest possible minimum wage. Get a clue.

[henderson field]

Then the World Trade Centers were blown up by the Daughters of the American Revolution?

[Cobra64]

"...devising a process to normalize the status of illegals who are already here.

If they are here ILLEGALY, then they have broken the law and should be DEPORTED! This is not rocket science.

[AbsoluteJustice]

So am under the assumption that you DO NOT want to close the borders?

Refer to post # 4. Take note the projections for the cost it will run this country in the future in which LEGALS are already costing this country more than Illegals. Read the links and you tell me if you do not want a closed border policy. We are a welfare nation!

[presidio9]

Then the World Trade Centers were blown up by the Daughters of the American Revolution?

See: This is exactly the type of alarmist nonsense I was talking about. I used to work in the WTC, so don't talk to me about complacency. Opportunists who try to milk tragedies make me sick. How many of the 9/11 terrorists wore a sombrero or had a "z" on the end of his last name?

[junta]

According to the logic of presboy it was a "racist" white man's conspiracy to bring discredit globalism and open borders.

[presidio9]

I am all for abandoning the current welfare state. Do you have any other arguments against immigration? Without the welfare security blanket it is my sincere hope that Americans who refuse to work will find other more socialist countries more hospitible. Problem solved. As for the guy who mows my lawn? I could care less about his accent or what color his skin is.

[AbsoluteJustice]

"According to the logic of presboy it was a "racist" white man's conspiracy to bring discredit globalism and open borders."

Na it was turd world pressure such as that coming from Vicente Fox asking us to legalize all of his criminal illegals over here. Say hey where was good ol Vicente Fox when this country went thru 9/11? I didn't hear one peep from him. Now that it has passed and settled with NO HELP from him or his country he now wants to open talks again about legalizing illegals. What platform does good ol Vicente have to stand on? Trade embargo with the U.S. ?

LOL I would love to see that happen!

[AbsoluteJustice]

Let me dispell a myth for you real quick.

Concerning the lie that they are doing jobs American will not do is HOGWASH!!

Remember a time way back when during the Great Depression in which AMERICANS were scraping for work? I am here to tell you now if I without work in my profession do not think for ONE minute second that I would not mow a lawn or hit the local fast food joint to take care of my family! You are putting an American OUT OF WORK by your logic and are the primary reason why myths and lies concerning immigration prevail. They DO NOT PAY TAXES (Fact). WE PAY their healthcare costs (Fact). Next time you complain that your healthcare costs are being driven and your taxes are rising lust look to your front yard and then you will discover why this is! Read my links you may find them interesting!

[presidio9]

According to the logic of presboy it was a "racist" white man's conspiracy to bring discredit globalism and open borders.

You need to go back and re-read what I actually said. I listed racism as one of several motivations. The main driving force behind protectionism is a socialist desire to artificially bolster the wages of the manufacturing class.

[usurper]

The "prevention through deterrence" strategy has been failing for years. The U.S. more than doubled the number of agents on the Mexican border in the 1990s, but the tactic backfired. The number of illegals increased substantially over that period -- by an estimated 5.5 million -- and more seasonal workers opted to stay longer, thereby reducing the circular migration that used to be the norm.

This statement is dishonest at best. The strategy has been very effective when properly resourced. A simple trip to the San Diego border demonstrates the reality although a doubt anyone from the WSJ has ever been near the border.

It was not the Border Patrol’s strategy that failed but virtually every other element of immigration policy. During the 1990 interior enforcement was shut down. Congress offered further incentives to illegal immigration in the form of a rolling amnesty to millions under the provisions of section 245(i). Federal, State and local government officials could not out pander each other far enough for the special interest money and potential votes.

The critics prefer to toughen their enforcement-only approach that ignores labor market realities, offers no practical recourse to the millions already here illegally, and results in hundreds of migrant deaths every year.

Another dishonest statement. The WSJ ignores our nations national security realities and offers no practical recourse on how a new amnesty will not result in a further increase of illegal immigration just as the last one did. They are in the position of saying that increasing illegal immigration benefits national security. Not a very tenable position.

The WSJ and other multi national business and special interests groups due not have our countries best interests at heart. They are infected with the sickness of greed would destroy this country for their own self-interests.

[presidio9]

Remember a time way back when during the Great Depression in which AMERICANS were scraping for work? I am here to tell you now if I without work in my profession do not think for ONE minute second that I would not mow a lawn or hit the local fast food joint to take care of my family! You are putting an American OUT OF WORK by your logic and are the primary reason why myths and lies concerning immigration prevail. They DO NOT PAY TAXES (Fact). WE PAY their healthcare costs (Fact). Next time you complain that your healthcare costs are being driven and your taxes are rising lust look to your front yard and then you will discover why this is! Read my links you may find them interesting!

Allow me to shoot an arrow of logic in your doomsday scenario: The problems you are describing are not the fault of healthy adults who are willing to work (such as yourself -I commend you - I'd be right there beside you mowing that lawn). The problem you describe is a direct result of the welfare state that has been allowed to fester in this country. Long before the current immigration boom, there were plenty of able-bodied Americans who prefered to suck off the government tit rather than go out an earn for themselves. That, of course, is what spurred immigration in the first place.

[AbsoluteJustice]

I agree with your assessment. We under agrrement that immigration reform is needed both legal and illegal. Leave it to the politicos to start new Programmes.

[4Freedom]

"That, of course, is what spurred immigration in the first place."

Wrong. Greedy employers that bribed our politicians to allow massive, uncontrolled legal and illegal immigration, so that they might hire 2 immigrants in the place of one American worker with the U.S. Taxpayers picking up the tab for healthcare and benefits, are what led to our present crisis.

[PuNcH]

The main driving force behind protectionism is a socialist desire to artificially bolster the wages of the manufacturing class.

Artificial to you because you dont believe in the US Constitution or the rule of law. You are a loony anarchist wackjob. The disregard for the rights of american citizens is a socialist redistribution of wealth.

And just how damn stupid do you have to be to blantantly ignore the aid illegal immigration and our open borders has given to terrorists? Just how stupid do you have to be to ignore the rising levels of crime?