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Report: Submarine damage worse than expected [USS Hartford]
Navy Times ^
| December 23, 2003
| AP Staff
Posted on 12/23/2003 2:57:07 PM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Edited on 05/07/2004 10:11:54 PM PDT by Jim Robinson.
[history]
GROTON, Conn.
(Excerpt) Read more at navytimes.com ...
TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Connecticut
KEYWORDS: usshartford
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The reports of the boat "lightly touching bottom" are definitely wrong.
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
I think a few careers were left on the sandy bottom, too.
2
posted on
12/23/2003 2:59:54 PM PST
by
Hank Rearden
(Dick Gephardt. Before he dicks you.)
To: Hank Rearden
Yeah, looks like they lost their command.
3
posted on
12/23/2003 3:02:57 PM PST
by
mystery-ak
(Mike...Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas...)
To: Hank Rearden
They probably wished it was a 'sandy bottom.'
4
posted on
12/23/2003 3:08:33 PM PST
by
demlosers
(Light weight and flexible - radiation shielding is solved.)
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
the navigation team went too long without updating the ships chart position, sources told the newspaper.
You would think that updates would be automatice in todays world of computers, etc.
At least they didn't lose lives and the boat can be repaired it seems..... careers maybe gone
5
posted on
12/23/2003 3:15:01 PM PST
by
deport
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
...
wandered outside the channel when the navigation team went too long without updating the ships chart position... The commodore of Submarine Squadron 22 in La Maddalena, Capt. Greg Parker, and the ships captain, Cmdr. Christopher R. Van Metre, were both relieved of command Nov. 9. Six crewmen who were part of the navigation party received punishments for dereliction of duty.
As a former Navigator this is so far beyond inexcusable that I am absolutely speechless. I had expected to find that charts had been updated improperly or that conflicting orders had been given ...
Failure to properly chart the position of a U.S. Naval Combatant should result in courts martial for everyone from the Skipper to the QMOW, XO, Gator, OOD, and Conn included!
6
posted on
12/23/2003 3:21:57 PM PST
by
BlueNgold
(Feed the Tree .....)
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Admiral Nimitz, as a young Naval officer, ran a tin can (destroyer) aground in Manila Bay. That was back in an era when officers were granted some leniency, providing you had a stellar record (up to the point you screwed up ) ... it was considered part of the learning curve.
7
posted on
12/23/2003 3:22:12 PM PST
by
BluH2o
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
"lightly touching bottom"
You'd think we'd be beyond this sort need for propaganda, but I guess not. Maybe because we live in an era of Leftists who will seize on any opportunity to cajole, criticize, whine, lie, etc. about the military or the US, we can't get there yet.
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Looks like another 688 just hit the decommissioning list prematurely.
To: BlueNgold
Article 110 of the UCMJ, "Improper hazarding of a vessel," is a capital offense if done willfully.
10
posted on
12/23/2003 3:28:34 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
To: deport
FYI from a former submarine sailor:
If the gouges are too deep into the metal, the boat will be decommissioned. There is no way to repair that, short of rebuilding the entire back half of the ship from the beginning. If they did try to repair it and it failed, you lose the entire crew and the boat too. Too much to lose,
Same thing happened to the USS Nathaniel Greene when it grounded coming out of Holy Loch a few years back. They decomissioned and scrapped it after observing the damage to the forward part of the ship and determining the hull integrity had been compromised.
To: deport
You would think that updates would be automatice in todays world of computers, etc. Even where automated chart updates are available they are never to substitute for manual charting. GPS is to be used only as an 'advisory system' in Coastal Navigation, and is superseded by even celestial plots in open waters. GPS may be charted as the official position only when other means of determining a ships position are unavailable or deemed unreliable.
Believe it or not, it is not unusual for a good nav team to be able to plot a sighted/electronically assisted (Sonar/Radar) position faster and more accurately than a GPS Lat/Long can be plotted. I expected my crews to be able to take 90 second fixes in coastal situations, including course speed updates, set/drift, waypoint relation, and recommended actions. They earned 3 consecutive Navigation 'E's including a perfect run through the Balboa Straights. Always rely on good people with good training... and always train like you don't trust anyone.
12
posted on
12/23/2003 3:31:19 PM PST
by
BlueNgold
(Feed the Tree .....)
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Read my previous posts. I was dissed but I had inside information that this sub was fubared. It hit an undersea wall at top speed (I cannot say how fast because it is "top secret"), augured into the wall so hard that it almost turned the sob upside down. Then the Captain bubbled up and grounded the sub on a shoal.
To: BlueNgold
nuclear submarine for sale in eBay? ;)
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Can you say court marshall?
15
posted on
12/23/2003 3:53:04 PM PST
by
fso301
To: BlueNgold; neverdem
Always rely on good people with good training... and always train like you don't trust anyone as an ex-infantry/mortar crewman, I'm completely "at sea" when it comes to knowledge about your profession...but I had thought that submariners were more or less the "delta force" of the navy, at least as far as elitism, professionalism, attention to detail, rigorous training, etc..
Maybe a little wide in the stern...but the best of the best when it came to seamanship. How does this sort of thing happen? And what is your take on the tragic collision with the japanese trawler?
This is not, I say again not a snide question, or army/navy rivalry- I really want to know- if nothing else, can minute examination of the events leading up to these incidents tell us something about how highly trained/skilled people can still screw up?
Seems to me the FAA (or somesuch) did a study on avoidable (non-mechanical) crashes- one finding was that a rigid, hierarchical chain of command inhibited junior officers from questioning/correcting the senior flight officer- audio recordings show a co-pilot was often aware of a problem, and tried to bring it to the captain's attention, but was brushed off, and didn't persevere. Any idea if something like this could play a role?
I'm glad they all made it home.
To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
At the risk of offending liberal readers, are we talking affirmative action sub driver here?
17
posted on
12/23/2003 4:06:41 PM PST
by
Tacis
To: fso301
Can you SPELL court-martial?
(Sorry, couldn't pass it up)
18
posted on
12/23/2003 4:07:57 PM PST
by
baltodog
(When you're hanging from a hook, you gotta' get a bigger boat, or something like that.)
To: baltodog
My brother was on the James Madison.
I wonder if that ever hit anything...
19
posted on
12/23/2003 4:10:08 PM PST
by
baltodog
(When you're hanging from a hook, you gotta' get a bigger boat, or something like that.)
To: Tacis
I don't think the Navy plays affirmative-action games with subs. At least I sure hope they don't.
20
posted on
12/23/2003 4:11:56 PM PST
by
baltodog
(When you're hanging from a hook, you gotta' get a bigger boat, or something like that.)
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