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To: deport
You would think that updates would be automatice in todays world of computers, etc.

Even where automated chart updates are available they are never to substitute for manual charting. GPS is to be used only as an 'advisory system' in Coastal Navigation, and is superseded by even celestial plots in open waters. GPS may be charted as the official position only when other means of determining a ships position are unavailable or deemed unreliable.

Believe it or not, it is not unusual for a good nav team to be able to plot a sighted/electronically assisted (Sonar/Radar) position faster and more accurately than a GPS Lat/Long can be plotted. I expected my crews to be able to take 90 second fixes in coastal situations, including course speed updates, set/drift, waypoint relation, and recommended actions. They earned 3 consecutive Navigation 'E's including a perfect run through the Balboa Straights. Always rely on good people with good training... and always train like you don't trust anyone.

12 posted on 12/23/2003 3:31:19 PM PST by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: BlueNgold
nuclear submarine for sale in eBay? ;)
14 posted on 12/23/2003 3:40:48 PM PST by Frohickey
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To: BlueNgold; neverdem
Always rely on good people with good training... and always train like you don't trust anyone

as an ex-infantry/mortar crewman, I'm completely "at sea" when it comes to knowledge about your profession...but I had thought that submariners were more or less the "delta force" of the navy, at least as far as elitism, professionalism, attention to detail, rigorous training, etc..

Maybe a little wide in the stern...but the best of the best when it came to seamanship. How does this sort of thing happen? And what is your take on the tragic collision with the japanese trawler?

This is not, I say again not a snide question, or army/navy rivalry- I really want to know- if nothing else, can minute examination of the events leading up to these incidents tell us something about how highly trained/skilled people can still screw up?

Seems to me the FAA (or somesuch) did a study on avoidable (non-mechanical) crashes- one finding was that a rigid, hierarchical chain of command inhibited junior officers from questioning/correcting the senior flight officer- audio recordings show a co-pilot was often aware of a problem, and tried to bring it to the captain's attention, but was brushed off, and didn't persevere. Any idea if something like this could play a role?

I'm glad they all made it home.

16 posted on 12/23/2003 4:03:55 PM PST by fourdeuce82d
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To: BlueNgold
The commodore of Submarine Squadron 22 in La Maddalena, Capt. Greg Parker, and the ship’s captain, Cmdr. Christopher R. Van Metre, were both relieved of command Nov. 9. Six crewmen who were part of the navigation party received punishments for dereliction of duty.

I understand the Skipper being canned but is it normal for the Commodore to be relieved?

USAF type here. If a Wing CC lost a plane or two - maintenance or otherwise, he still had the job. If the "number of take offs don't equal the number of landings" became a trend, they would most certainly start the blood letting at the very top and work their way down into the maintenance shops. But that was fairly rare.

Just curious.

LVM

33 posted on 12/23/2003 4:48:51 PM PST by LasVegasMac (unrestricted - 780 HP out of a 351. Santa, can I have one - please?)
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To: BlueNgold
Also I'd assume it would be hard to get a GPS fix while traveling submerged.
60 posted on 12/23/2003 5:55:23 PM PST by HP8753 (My cat doesn't see the humor in static electricity.... ;-)
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