Questions about the Nativity [Where's You're Jesus Now!]

The Boston Globe ^ | 12/23/2003 | James Carroll

[johnny7]

OUR CALENDAR assumes that Jesus was born in the year 0 -- but was he? Scholars, noting a mistaken calculation by the 6th century sage who invented a scheme of time to honor a "Christian era," tell us that Jesus was born in the year 4 BC. But was he?

[smith288]

Proverbs 10:8
The wise in heart accept commands, but a chattering fool comes to ruin.

I expect Mr Carroll to come to ruin in the next life.

[4CJ]

Great points! "Magi"s--magic men??! Why would magicians seek the Lord?

Magis - court astrologers - they asked Herod (KJV Mat 2:2), "Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him." Now why would they travel so far to worship a child?

[Taliesan]

"If we chose to grant credibility to one," the scholar Paula Fredriksen writes, "it comes at a cost to the other: Both cannot be true."

These people kill me. I've been reading the same texts for 35 years that she is reading, and I read them in the language they were written in, like she does, and I can't see why differences have to be contradictions any more than if we were all reading 4 people's account, directed to 4 different audiences at 4 different times, of the planes flying into the towers.

When we all have the same texts I'm not sure how Paula gets to be an "expert" in them and a million Christians are not. This reminds me of those psychologists who are regularly interviewed by the press as "experts" in child rearing, who may or may not have kids of their own.

Reporters, because they are NOT learned in any particular subject, have an inability to judge expertise. They think anybody with a degree, who has read a bunch of books, and who -- most importantly -- is cynical like they are -- well, that must be an expert.

[MissAmericanPie]

"But the Gospel of Luke says that Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem from their home in Nazareth to comply with the empire-wide census order of the Caesar Augustus, and some such decree is thought to have been issued after Herod died, perhaps as late as AD 6.

They should be embrassed to be so easy to out. Matthew and Luke in no way contradict each other.

[Ham Hock]

This is patently idiotic from the first sentence.

There is no year 0, the calendar goes from -1 to 1.

[Agnes Heep]

I can't understand why Joseph would have forced his nine months' pregnant wife to make a long trip, over what I imagine is some difficult terrain, to Bethlehem, simply so he could register for his taxes. It's more likely she would have stayed at home with relatives.

[shiva]

The difference in the gospels are the apostles themselves. Best way I can tell you is that I have two sisters. When we get together each one of us tells stories about when we were younger and living at home. Strange thought how each one of us sees the same stories in different prespectives. We saw the same incidents but each of us tell the story different. The apostles talked and walked with Jesus but each one tells it different. Remember they all came from different backgrounds and they all saw things different. People are all that way. After a time lapse we remember things different. This Christmas when you get together with your loved one, listen to how they tell the same story but in different ways. I remember going drinking with my buddy one night. The next day we talked about it and I don't remember having as much fun as my buddy claims we had. Each one of us tells the same story but in a totally different way.

[SoothingDave]

There is no year 0, the calendar goes from -1 to 1.

Yep, the first of many errors.

SD

[SoothingDave]

An interesting fact to be gleaned from careful reading is that the wise men did NOT arrive the night that Christ was born. Therefore, all the nativity scenes are historically flawed.

The popular image of the nativity, with the wise men, is indeed flawed. Catholics have historically refrained from placing the wise men figures into their nativity scenes until the Epiphany (Jan. 6, the "twelfth day of Christmas") when we celebrate this very visitation as a seperate occasion. It symbolizes, among other things, that Jesus came to be the Light of the World for Gentiles as well as Jews.

SD

[jtminton]

perhaps Mary's virginity

Now that's just a cheap shot. While Luke 2:7 indicates that Mary was not a perpetual virgin (refering to Jesus as her firstborn son, indicating that there were others to follow), the virgin birth of Jesus is what makes his completely free of sin. The author is just being mean.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Questions about the Nativity [Where's You're Jesus Now!]

A grammer correction is due: "You're" is incorrect. You're is a contraction of "You are".

You should have used, "Your".

[ZULU]

Interesting that such a piece of junk has been vomited forth from Boston, the lair of the Kennedyites.

The fact of the matter is the Romans themselves, through Tacitus and Jospehus acknowledge that a certain Jesus was crucified about the time he supposedly was, in Palestine, and that he had a group of followers.

The fact is that hte records which have survived from Roman times are far from complete, that there were really not the kinds of newssources that exist in the modern world, that what went on in Palestine was of little interest to the Romans apart form its potential impact on their control of that region.

This article reeks of religious bias and half-truths.

[dougs2cents]

The "author" from the Globe prefers history books written by "scholars". Books like the textbooks in our public schools that have Thanksgiving as a party thrown by the Pilgrims to thank the Indians.

[ArrogantBustard]

OUR CALENDAR assumes that Jesus was born in the year 0

Wow. He starts off with a really stupid factual error, and it goes downhill from there. In the Gregorian Calendar, there is NO Year Zero. The year 1BC (Before Christ) is followed by the year 1 AD (Anno Domini; Year of Our Lord).

[Tribune7]

Sarcasm aside, can you explain the differences of the Gospels?

It's not that hard. They were written by different, diligent, researchers attempting to honestly and accurately describe reports of an unusual event in an age before telegraphs and railroads and printing presses much less television and computers.

There is a aphorism in fields such as journalism, law, and police work that if two witnesses give the exact same story the only thing you can be sure of is that both are lying.

It's not the differences in the Gospels that are important it's the parts that stay the same.

[WalterSkinner]

Ah yes, it's Christmas time again for sure.

From the Learning Channel to every undereducated journalist who fashions himself to be an expert in all things Bible--we once again get the attempt to plant seeds of doubt concerning Jesus and Holy Writ.

As far as the Magi. The prophet Daniel gives the answer. They knew precisely when the King would be born and came looking for Him.

Joy to the world-- He's coming again and then all your kingdoms are belong to us.

[Just mythoughts]

So the point of this article seems to be that no one can say for certain exactly what year Christ was born.

That being the case then the whole calendar is screwed.

The book of Luke does in fact give far more information than the author has the capacity to understand. The key to the clues of when the conception occurred come from what we are told about Zacharias the Levi priest. The timeframe "of the course of Abia" tells the time of year when Elizabeth conceived John.

Six months later Mary conceived Christ. Interesting how the author with no ability to read with understand wants to paint Christians as the real troublemakers.

[hellinahandcart]

Suprised it took until end of article to slip in the comparison.

Oh, you're overlooking the best part! And he waited until the VERY end to wedge this one in:

Or was he a fierce opponent -- as a Jew -- of empire? What empire would he oppose today?

(dighton, another "cat-tongued segue" for you.)

[hellinahandcart]

James Carroll dives into a clear lake in search of muddy water.

[dighton]

If you expect the worst from James Carroll, you will not be disappointed.

Footnote.