Saddam-Rumsfeld pic (how to throw down the argument that Reagan helped Saddam)

Yours Truly | December 17, 2003 | Yours Truly

[El Conservador]

Some Australian guy in another forum I frequent is raving about how the US helped Iraq gas Iranians and Kurds when "he was our ally".

He's flailing the Rumsfeld-Saddam pic to make his point.

How can I debunk his blubber with facts???

Thanks beforehand for the help you could provide me.

[El Conservador]

Thanks!!!

[stylin_geek]

Ask if it is better that we continued in that mistake, something along those lines, that what we did in the past does not justify future actions or inaction.

[Texas_Jarhead]

I can't help at all that other to say that we were once allied with Joe Stalin too.

[Numbers Guy]

So he's arguing that Reagan was innocent of any duplicity in Iran-Contra. Clearly if Saddam was our bosom buddy we wouldn't have been selling weapons to Iran, now would we . . .

[Skywalk]

We didn't help him gas the Kurds.

Some people. I believe our intel assistance was constrained to the earlier parts of the war. By the time of 88-89, I don't think there was anything more than a general "let's hope they bash each other's brains out" sentiment regarding the Iran-Iraq war.

I might be wrong on some of that, but we did not HELP Saddam gas anyone. Even the dual use components he received were from German companies. Besides, even if some American companies did provide dual-use items, I hardly think that means the US should refuse to do something about it later. Or does that prohibit every country in the world from ever changing an alliance or preference or deciding it had made a mistake.

Tell the moron we provided material assistance to the Soviet Union as well during WW II--should we have then always been aligned with them and ashamed to act against them in the Cold War?

Wait a minute, he's probably a commie, so maybe that won't work.

[swilhelm73]

I believe the dissident frogman had a graphic on his site showing the breakdown of were Saddam got his weapons from, with 57% from the USSR/Russia and 1% from the US.

Basically, during the cold war, Hussein was a Soviet ally. We did provide him some minor aid during the Iran-Iraq war, pretty much solely intelligence, and no, no chem weapons.

You might bring up Iran-Contra to your nemisis - remember when we sold weapons to Iran...to use against Iraq? Some allies we were.

The honest truth is we wanted a draw and played both sides against each other between the two. It worked stunningly well looking back on it with the Iran-Iraq war ending in a draw.

Now, OTOH, Chirac is personally reasonable for building Hussein the Osirak nuclear facility in return for lucrative oil contracts.

[michaelt]

Why don't you ask him for proof that we specifically helped them with poison gas production? Like details and such?

And here's something that I haven't seen anywhere else: if the US armed Saddam, why is all of the debt owed to France, Germany, Russia, the Saudis, etc., and not the United States?

[liberallarry]

cwboelter provides great answers on this thread

Michael Moore on Saddam's capture (BARF alert!)

[swilhelm73]

BTW, might want to show this one off too - a far more damning pic;



or how about this one;



Clark exchanging pleasantries (and hats) with a serbian war criminal

[sigSEGV]

I believe you're referring to this graphic.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/889398/posts

[sigSEGV]

[LasVegasMac]

to say that we were once allied with Joe Stalin too.

Good point - and a great answer.

Would we have been friendly to Bad Joe if we knew what he would do after WWII?

Probably - given the situation.

Just my $.05 worth.

LVM

[fourhorsemen]

How can I debunk his blubber with facts???

The facts are that the U.S. provided considerable aid to Iraq during the 1980's, a time when Iraq was at war with Iran. We overlooked Iraq's nuclear program, it's bio/chem programs, and its willingness to use chemical weapons because it was in our best interest to assist Iraq in defeating Iran.

The history isn't pretty, but history often isn't. You have to do what you have to do at the time to survive. In our case, our actions centered on our main threat in the region, Iran.

[Azzurri]

I've been replying to the Rumsfeld-Saddam photo with that Roosevelt-Stalin photo every time I get confronted. It works like a charm. Thanks for the Clark picture, that will come in handy.

[squidly]

Disapproval of U.S. aid to Iraq during the '80s = approval of Iran as an Islamic "super state." Most of the people sniping at U.S. policy during the '80s re: Iraq are too dense to realize this, or too dishonest to admit it.

[Azzurri]

It must also be noted that it was the Carter administration who encouraged Saddam to attack Iran.

[fourhorsemen]

that table can be a bit misleading, often we have provided cash to our allies to help them obtain soviet weaponry, which had already made up a large portion of their arsenal. For example, our first action in Afghanistan was to give cash to the Northern Alliance to allow them to buy soviet era arms, ammunition, and spare parts.

[fourhorsemen]

It must also be noted that it was the Carter administration who encouraged Saddam to attack Iran.

That may be the only correct action ever taken by that administration. :-)

[Tribune7]

A few months back some posted the breakdown on who armed the Iraqis. The Russians were first by far followed by the French.

We were barely on the list.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

I don't disagree with the numbers but what were those people smoking who did the color coding of the chart. Listing Russia and China as "determined to avoid war at any price" is too funny.