Conservatives are now the "Blacks" of the Republican Party

vanity ^ | 12/17/03 | Destro

[Destro]

In a discussion on this thread Tom Ridge's Immigration Remarks Draw Fire a post regarding the conservative angst about the recent campaign finance reform that Bush signed into law and that the Supreme Court approved (and the approval was praised by the White House), on the heals of the Medicare entitlement enacted under a Republican controlled government the following was posted:

I'm hearing Rush now. He claims the republicans have ONLY one party to go to. He has put this issue squarely on the problem. We need to vote outside of this corrupt party apparatus.

12 posted on 12/11/2003 12:39:52 PM EST by Digger

I also heard this on Rush and my blood boiled. Rush said conservatives have no place else to go and thus will continue to vote as a block to the Republicans.....and then it hit me. That is exactly what we conservatives lament about Blacks and the Democratic party. Black Democrats who vote straight Democratic and are rewarded by being ignored.

In other words, Conservatives are now the "Blacks" of the Republican Party!!!

I urge the same solution to Republican conservatives that Black conservatives offer to Black Democrats. QUIT! Become independents and let the parties fight for our votes. If we can't take the GOP back we should leave the GOP.

I did not change. My party did. I thank God Ronald Reagan is unable to comprehend what is happening to the party he saved.

[WOSG]

"So if you were open minded, you would realize that to leave the GOP is not to weaken the right."

I know too much about our history and understand political realities too well to accept such drivel.

Which part of "united we stand, divided we fall" is unclear to you?

[looscnnn]

It's painful to see dumb things done by elected Republicans, but I can assure you, the Dims do even worse.

Difference is that the libs that obey the Dims (or the other way around) like when they do worse. Remember they are all for destroying America. They are happy to get more liberal. Conservatives won't stand for the GOP heading into lib territory.

[looscnnn]

united we stand, divided we fall

I understand what it means, are you talking about conservatives or the GOP, you seem to equate both as one in the same.

I know too much about our history and understand political realities too well to accept such drivel.

It is not drivel, it is cold hard facts. I stated that the GOP is not the right, only a party of members of various view points. Another way to look at it is a cup is the GOP and you have marbles in it (say 5 red for the left, 10 green for moderates and 5 blue for conservatives) now then there are other cups with marbles in it (one with lots of red in it for the democrats and one for the Constitution party, or whatever, with a handful of blues, we will say 8). Now if you take the blues out of the GOP cup and put them in the Constitution party cup, what do you have. Are the conservatives (the right) weaker, no because there is no loss in the number of them. Is the GOP weaker, yes because they lost members. It is as simple as that, plain and simple. Remember (say it with me) the GOP is not the right. The conservatives are the right.

[freedumb2003]

That is a LOT ov verbage to totally mis-state, mis-represent and mis-interpret my posts.

I am the first to admit there are a lot of gray areas in the Constitution. There is no way to address all of that here. Certain vet made certain grand and erroneous assertions. These types of assertions are what cause many problems we are having as conservatives.

If you try hard enough, you can assemble constitutional arguments that say purple is yellow. And in the final analysis, SCOTUS is the final "authority."

The philosphy of the USC is, IMHO, clear. It limits Government and is based on what Government can NOT do. This does not make me a Libertarian -- merely a strict Constructionalist.

I am sorry you take offense at some of my (admitted) bombast. I didn't know I was 1AC or 1NR. A little spice to keep things interesting -- which of course is unheard of in FR. Whereas vet seemed to get his shots in (sorta), I find your presumptuousness interesting and, as is my wont, amusing.

I stand by my analyses and style. But I don't take myself all THAT seriously. I guess that's just me.

[RaceBannon]

Hey, Moron, if you want to vote for Dean, go for it.

But in the mean time, take your head out of the sand and wake up.

Bush is no Conservative, and neither is this administration.

[k2blader]

I've voted for the GOP in the past primarily because of the ideas supported by its Christian, conservative base.

*If* the liberals and "moderates" make up the GOP base now, there would be no good reason to keep the party in power.

Liberals and "moderates" already make up the Democrat party.

[k2blader]

And if you don't support Bush in 2004, you are really supporting the Dem.

Wrong. I will be supporting whomever I choose to vote for.

[Consort]

I've voted for the GOP in the past primarily because of the ideas supported by its Christian, conservative base.

That's OK. Others might vote GOP for a variety of other reasons (e.g., strong on crime, strong support for the military, sensible environmental policy, etc.).

*If* the liberals and "moderates" make up the GOP base now, there would be no good reason to keep the party in power.

You don't believe that for one minute. As a good Christian, you respect liberals and moderates, even Democrat liberals and moderates. It's not just about you or just about conservatives. Isn't that so?

Liberals and "moderates" already make up the Democrat party.

Yes, the Democrats versions of liberals and moderates, as you already know. It's a matter of degree. If you want to a party of only conservatives, you will have to start one. If one already existed, you would already be in it.

[Consort]

Wrong. I will be supporting whomever I choose to vote for.

It's not necessarily wrong. You, could, in fact, be supporting a Democrat with your vote. There are intentional and unintentional plusses and minuses to voting. There are also a lot of excuses and rationalizations (and stubborness), as well.

[spintreebob]

Let's not forget ... he who gets the most votes wins!

wrong! Electoral college? Guys in backroom handpick candidates on both sides for us?

Maybe we are the Republican's Blacks because we expect affirmative action. We think we should win because we think we are right (which we are). But without working for it?

But we only deserve to win if we WORK. So far, few of us are willing to do the hard work or smart work necessary to win.

We're not just the Blacks, we're the ho's of the Republican Party. They get off on us.

[m18436572]

"I voted Republican, my daddy always said to vote Republican, as did his dad. Heck, my whole family voted Republican since who knows when. Why should I change?"

Zat sound black enough for ya?

(Hint: substitute Dem. for Rep.)

[labard1]

The electoral votes of 48 states go to the winner of MAJORITIES of votes within the states. Maine and Nebraska award two votes to state majorities and the rest to congressional district majorities. In no case does getting a third or so of "right thinkers" win anything.

I agree it's hard work and money AND good ideas well marketed that lead to victory.

[k2blader]

I'm still pretty surprised you think liberals and "moderates" make up the GOP base. I was thinking/hoping the conservos were still in control. The question would make for a good FR poll.

You don't believe that for one minute.

Yes, I do believe that if the GOP base has gone left, the party can be expected to behave progressively leftist and support more and more leftism. Thing is--we don't know for sure if it has gone left. I see enough Republican FReepers protesting the Medicare bill and CFR to cause doubt in that arena.

If you want to a party of only conservatives, you will have to start one.

The Constitution Party seems to be conservative enough for me.

If one already existed, you would already be in it.

Nah, I don't believe in being a member of any political party. I just vote for the person with the best ideas.

[m18436572]

bttt

[Capitalism2003]

Our only hope is to pull the GOP back to the side of LIMITED GOVERNMENT, much the way Nader has pulled the democrats to the LEFT. Naderites no longer need to vote green. They feel perfectly at home in the Dean/Kucinich/Hellary party. We need to make conservatives who believe in limited, Constitutional government welcome back into the GOP. Sadly, the only way to do this is to inflict a little short term PAIN on our officials, and let them know we will not stand for their endless compromises.

How? Vote Libertarian!

[k2blader]

I disagree.

President H. W. Bush lost reelection because of President H. W. Bush. Just like algore lost 2000 because of algore.

[labard1]

Yes, it's true that Nader is pulling the Dims to the Left, but they are LOSING ELECTIONS. Is that what you want conservatives to do?

The way to move right is to win elections, to sell our policies to voters at every opportunity, and to convince a solid majority of voters of our views. Schism is not the way to a majority in single member districts.

[WOSG]

[hypothetical about splitting off conservatives into 3rd party] ... "Are the conservatives (the right) weaker,"

YES, because they have made themselves part of a coalition that has no influence in WINNING elections.

"no because there is no loss in the number of them."

This is your error of course ... in the 1980s, Texas sent up 20 Democrats and only 7 Republicans. The Democrats were a mix of conservatives and liberals, but they were trapped into voting to support a Liberal Democrat Congress. Even though the majority of Texans voted for Reagan, they also 'sent' a bunch of Liberals to frustrate the Reagan agenda. A mix of voting patterns and gerrymandering did that.

If Conservatives throw away their vote, they simply let the Democrats win? Do Democrats *care* if they win with only 43% of the vote and the conservative American majority split? NO! Just look at 43% Bill Clinton's attempt to socialize medicine, raise taxes and pervert culture in his first 2 years.

"Is the GOP weaker, yes because they lost members. It is as simple as that, plain and simple."

The GOP is the single election vehicle for sending Conservatives to Congress and to state houses that works. Let me repeat: We have literally hundreds of great conservatives at the Federal and state level in the Republican party. In 3rd parties in elective office? None. In the Democrat party? Once Zell Miller and Ralph Hall retire, I challenge you to find a single Democrat you can call conservative. Making the GOP weaker is a surefire way to make the conservative cause weaker.

Let me be clear: Go ahead and be a 'conservative activist' in a way that suits your principles, opinions, and views.
If you dont like what Republicans do 100%, I understand, I dont agree with them (ie "us") 100% either. Support Club for Growth, or Heritage, or FR, or citizens against govt waste, or Eagle Forum, or Cato, or whatever.

But you're a dang fool if you think there is any better vehicle that Republican party for conservatives to gain power in the electoral system. 'united we stand, divided we fall' applies to *any* group, but in this case Conservatives. Conservatives united in the Republican party means we can FIRST make the country's more conservative party the MAJORITY party and SECOND we can move that majority party in the Conservative direction and get some of what we want (we'll never get all of what we want until we educate the 'sheeple' into being 'freepers').

Conservatives dividing themselves by splitting into 3rd parties (there will always be lots more sensible conservatives like me staying in the Republican party than going to a 3rd party so by definition there will be a splitting), is a way to divide strength so that there is less influence. Republican candidates will give up on using the conservative base and will only pander more to the middle/left.

[ModerateSwingVoter]

Is there really a Constitution party?

[Consort]

I'm still pretty surprised you think liberals and "moderates" make up the GOP base.

If the Conservatives controlled it all then there would be no problems, right. Plus, the libs and mod give us scapegoats to blame for any screw-ups. We call them RINOs, among other things.

I see enough Republican FReepers protesting the Medicare bill...

You can't blame them. I wanted to see that money put into grants to universities and research outfits to study things like: why water is wet, the love life of fruit flies, how to increase the lumen output in lightning bugs....you know...the important stuff.

I was waiting for you to mention that like many others are doing, of late.

I don't believe in being a member of any political party. I just vote for the person with the best ideas.

I might have covered that in post #469.