The Case of KAL 007

Various ^ | Various

[struwwelpeter]

A&E's recent reprisal of "Shootdown" prompted me to dust off this old posting. A YEAR before this BS was filmed, Izvestiya released volumes of information showing the Soviet Union to be at fault. They even interviewed the pilot, who stated that he knew it was a civilian airliner while shooting it down.

Of course, that doesn't stop the libs from repeating a lie over and over again. Once the libs do a send up on any event, it becomes 'history' - which is why that Reagan mini-series had to be stopped.

[Dilbert56]

There's a book: "Massacre KAL007" that proposes a fairly credible theory on why KAL007 was shot down. KAL paid huge bonuses to crews that saved fuel. One trick was to radio an incorrectly close position to get earlier sequencing in the approach pattern. Another, according to this book, was to take shortcuts through Soviet airspace. A Soviet base commander had apparently been executed for failing to intercept these overflights. Thus the stage was set. An intrusion and a very itchy trigger-finger.

[vetvetdoug]

Wasn't the President of the John Birch Society on board KAL 007 or was that McDonald also?

[TommyDale]

Another very intriguing item is that E-Systems had fitted Electronic Warfare on the 747. Some think that the Soviets were tricked into thinking the 747 was the military craft by sending a false signal that emulated the C-135.

Yet another more radical theory is that it was a conspiracy to kill a congressman who was an extreme right winger, a John Birch Society member, I believe.

Lots of theories. One thing is sure -- the Soviet military never recuperated after this incident. They revealed their shortcomings and soon after fell far behind the U.S. military during the Reagan Administration, and eventually collapsed.

[struwwelpeter]

It would probably take some awesome navigation skills to set up the INS for such a precise deviation, and doesn't explain why the cockpit recordings show surprise at the unexpected weather and wind along their route.

I lean towards error with the inertial nav. Another KAL plane in 1978 was flying from London to Alaska, once it approached the North Pole it made almost a 180 degree turn and headed back south towards Murmansk. Those guys were luckier than KAL 007, they managed to bring it down on a lake near Olenogorsk.

Crews might've 'cut the corners' - turning a few minutes late and slightly overflying - but flying directly over Petropavlovsk, no way.

[struwwelpeter]

that E-Systems had fitted Electronic Warfare on the 747.

Some Soviet dezinformatsiya just lives on and on. ;-)

This may be referring to the airborne laser platform, or an E-4 upgrade. How about a link?

[Taylor42]

A buddy of mine who is a former Air Force Intel officer once told me that the plane was shot down to kill one of the passengers. When I asked him for details he refused to say anything else.

[TommyDale]

Not long after this incident, on "60 Minutes", there was a story reporting on an E-Systems employee being wrongly charged in a robbery of a Kentucky Fried Chicken. In the background of the E-Systems shot sat a 747. It was later reported that several "international versions" of the 747s were fitted with EW, "in case of a national security emergency" where the U.S. Government could possibly make use of the aircraft.

[twigs]

My boss at the time, who did have some decent contacts, always told me that it was shot down to kill McDonald. Supposedly, he had a list of current American Communist members. I would have thought they would have been known anyway, but there was something on that list that someone didn't want revealed. I have no idea whether or not there is any validity to this argument.

[Alberta's Child]

A buddy of mine who is a former Air Force Intel officer once told me that the plane was shot down to kill one of the passengers. When I asked him for details he refused to say anything else.

That sounds intriguing, but I think it's a lot of baloney -- mainly because the odds of this specific passenger being on a flight that just happened to stray into Soviet airspace are very remote. If they really wanted to kill someone, there are about a thousand ways to do it in a less conspicuous manner that wouldn't attract much attention.

[1066AD]

IIRC initial reports out of Japan said it had landed on Sakhalin but then it changed to shootdown into sea.

struwwelpeter love it .. Little Johnny Headinair etc :)

[struwwelpeter]

E-Systems makes other things besides antennas and receivers. The did a lot of electronics on the National Airborne Command Post, and are working on a stratospheric infrared telescope, mounted on a 747 in a configuration reminescent of the RC-135 S "Cobra Ball". Whether this will be pure astronomy or missile defense related is as yet not known.

[Taylor42]

I'm only relating the story as he told it. However, I completely trust this individual. He's not the type to make something up to impress people. Actually he's more the mad scientist type, very smart and much too busy to care what people think of him.

[struwwelpeter]

Lots of rumors in the service, usually related by well-connected guys. Like the Area 51 and Wright Patterson stories, somebody always "heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy..." ;-)

Know the difference between a war story and a fairy tale? A fairy tale starts: "Once upon a time," and a war story begins with: "Now this ain't no s***!"

I'm waiting for our local "Russians" to show up and blame it all on the US like the libs do. Amazing, they can admit to murdering 8 million Ukrainians, but 269 Koreans and Americans had to be a US op.

[Alberta's Child]

If you're still in contact with him, you should ask him how this kind of thing could have worked: Did the Soviets track this guy's every move, until the day he just happened to be on a flight that strayed into Soviet airspace? This kind of stray flight doesn't happen very often, so they might have been waiting a very, very long time.

It just sounds to me like something is missing from this story.

[First_Salute]

Some enlightenment, here ---

Standard OPS: Shortwave radio checks by commercial aircraft, prior to trans-oceanic flights, are so powerful, that thousands of miles away, you can hear these pre-flight checks of commercial aircraft and sometimes the militaries', while they are still on the ground "over there."

The Korean airliner would not only have been using VHF (in U.S. aircpace, especially), yet it would also have been using shortwave radio on any flight planned over the ocean.

Already in the story above, is mention of the level of interest and observation by the Soviets, that they knew of the approach control radio traffic as the "Cobra Ball" neared a U.S. base on its return trip.

Such information methods are also used by the Soviets and the U.S. to track commercial flights.

That's the plan. That's what we are supposed to be doing.

So that we are not surprised by commando assault from such "allegedly commercial aircraft."

We routinely practiced for this kind of attack --- especially expecting it upon any of our (and NATO and SEATO) military airfields around the globe.

The problem for the Russians was not that they had any doubt about the Korean jetliner's legitimacy. The problem was that their own plans call for such an assault on us, and they could not rid themselves of imagining that their plan was being used against them.

The Russians chose to err on the side of protecting their careers.

[Alberta's Child]

There's no doubt in my mind that the Korean crew was at fault in this case. I don't know what it is about them, but those KAL crews have a serious problem with this kind of crap.

On September 11th, a KAL flight off the coast of Alaska was nearly shot down by U.S. Air Force jets that were scrambled to track all flights in the air over North America. The KAL crew didn't respond to multiple attempts to make radio and visual contact, but the U.S. pilots, perhaps knowing exactly who they were dealing with, showed considerable restraint.

To protect major Canadian cities from the remote possibility that there was a terrorist angle to the whole thing, the plane was ordered to land in Whitehorse, Yukon -- the most remote airport in the area that could accommodate a 747.

Some of you might remember the famous photos of the 747 on the tarmac at Whitehorse -- the aircraft was larger than the airport's terminal building. The Korean passengers spent three days there, and by the time they left they had pretty much emptied every clothing store in the town.

[Taylor42]

I will ask. However, your statement assumes that the plane was off course one it's own. If my friend's story is true, I would not make that assumption. Maybe someone can tell us how "easy" or "not easy" it would be to influence an INS nav system with false signals.

[struwwelpeter]

That's a good catch on your part. Very interesting.

My theory, however, is that they shot it down to avoid embarassment. I hang out with a lot of Slavs, and they can stand cold, bad food, barking dogs, smoke, rickety tables and hard beds. The only thing they cannot stand is shame. To let the aircraft go would have made their armed forces a laughingstock.

Ogarkov and lots of generals were sacked soon after the KAL incident when a German teenager landed a small plane in Moscow. Case in point.

[iopscusa]

Good post, I have wondered what happened. Seems there were enough stupid lefty/commie mistakes and lies to go around on this one. The Soviets were too dangerously stupid to trust and the South Koreans too stupid to fly, it is a sad story. Especially losing the Conservative Georgian Congressman. At least President Reagan found some use for this tragedy, he bludgeoned the Commies with it and made them pay!