Is it just me or is Atheism a religion?

Philosphy Forum ^ | FR Post 12-6-2003 | "A Sloth"

[vannrox]

This is a subject near to my heart and my own spiritual journey, and I'd like to discuss it with as many intelligent minds as possible as I ponder it. It seems to me as though the most basic, intrinsic aspect of a religious philosophy is faith. I have been talking to a lot of Christians lateley, so I'm not sure if that is the prevailing veiw among people of other persuasions. Anyways, it seems to me as though a religion can really be boiled down to beliving that it is THE answer, and it seems to me as though atheism is no exception.

But this is where I came to realize there many different brands of thought given the title of Atheist, each with their own twists. Here are some categories that i have run across, and my opinion(just roll with me on this one):

Spiritual Atheists Some people claim to be "spiritual" but not "religious," disavowing belief in a god persay in favor of just not thinking about the issue. It sounds just lazy to me. They get the "all good people go to heaven" feeling without defining good, heaven, or even feeling itself. This may work for some, but it seems to lack any real thought into the matter.

Non-Practicing Atheists And there are the "Catholics" like my parents who dont buy a word the church says, but are so afraid of what it means to be atheist that they desperately cling to a religion that offers them no real meaning.

Deist Atheists Some people use Atheism to describe a sense of disbelief in the major established world religions, which to me sounds like it could still be a throwback to the deism of the 18th century. Basically it can be summed up as: There is some kind of god, hes a pretty decent guy, dont be an ass and everything will turn out ok somehow, once again, a little too lazy for me.

Orthodox Atheists Then there are the Atheists so absolutly steadfast in their disbelief in god that they would have made an excellent Christian in another life (THAT's an interesting turn of phase!). They dont buy the proof that the various religions offer, but the seem to narrowmindedly rule out any possiblities except absolute soulless oblivion. I have a friend like this, and i have yet to figure out how he can 100% FOR SURE rule out a higher power of any type...

Agnostics This is the only one that really makes sense to me. I mean, maybe there's a god. Probably not one of the big religion's vengeful, mythical "gods" with their spotty and doubtfully accurate "historical records," I doubt reincarnation that doesnt work well with the increasing entropy of the universe, and the evidence for it is even less credible than the rest ... But prove to me god's not just hiding...

Thats where i'm at right now. I would appreciate any input, even religious propaganda. I want to know the truth, even if it means the complete destruction of my current schema for faith.

I would even go so far as to recommend two such books, The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith, to anyone who is openminded enough to consider Christianity. I almost bought into it after reading those, but to me, there are still holes (i'll probably talk about those later) If your already Christian, they will strengthen your faith, and if not, they will rock your world...

[Roughneck]

>>>So think in terms of "world view" which we can equate with the word "religion" used quite broadly.<<

I have to disagree. It is world (worldly) view, that atheists embrace. Whatever one's religion, or which God they worship, it is doen through a spiritual view.

My particular God (of Abraham, Issac and Joseph), tells me not to love the world or become attached to worldly things, I can not take the "world view" that may encompass atheists or satanic beliefs and expect to get into heaven.

[lelio]

Atheism is a religion, they just hate to admit it. Until you can PROVE God does not exist then you're working in the realm of faith my friend.

Prove Santa doesn't exist. If you go up to the North Pole and find nothing I'll just say he's hanging out on Mars for the summer.

[NeoCaveman]

I don't have enough faith to be an atheist,
I also don't have enough faith to be an environmentalist either.

Of course, Is environmentalism a religion, is a topic for another thread.

[NeoCaveman]

The author missed "Evangelical Atheists" as firm in their faith as the orthodox ones but also try to convert people and get the word G-d taken off of everything.

[ClearCase_guy]

If it's NOT a religion, can Congress make a law respecting an establishment of non-religious belief -- and outlaw atheism? Or ban its practice from public grounds (all government schools must have a religious charter)?

It's one or the other, isn't it? A protected religion, or a form of speech. Sure, speech is protected, but the government is allowed quite of bit of latitude in matters of what speech it is allowed to engage in and promote (but not religion).

[Loc123]

First, atheism is a philosophy and not a religion. Religion is the worship of a supernatural power.

There are two main types of religion: hedonistic or sacrificial. Buddhism, Hinduism, animism are all hedonistic (no restrictions or tests of worthiness to the creator). Islam, as I know it, is a mixture of hedonism and sacrifice. Islam seems to embrace violent jihad to spread itself, a throwback to our violent and evil natures. Judaism/Christianity, in a strict sense, is entirely sacrificial; it demands you deny your nature and be altruistic AT ALL TIMES.

The fact is--and nowhere is this seriously disputed--the universe did not generate itself. In fact, this fact is the foundation of science (Law of conservation, 1st Law I believe *don't quote). Therefore, if something extra-universal created the universe, then maybe It did so for a reason and that is what you must discover.

My best theory so far is that we subtract our qualities by our pre-consciousness ancestors to equal the direct endowment from the Creator. Interestingly, Christianity fits those qualities (IE controlling hedonism, violence, dependance on "feelings.") I was never raised Christian so I don't have any pre-logic conditioning to tell me it is right.

But the key is also to never become complacent. If you don't find what you are looking for in this thread, keep searching. And even if something "feels" good, keep questioning.

[MineralMan]

"Is it just me or is Atheism a religion?"

Nope. Atheism is not a religion at all. It is simply a disbelief in deities.

That said, there are some atheists who display the attributes of a religious fanatic. These are a very, very small minority of atheists, however.

For most of us, our atheism is not a daily part of our lives or thought processes. We just don't believe in any deities.

We go about out lives and do pretty much what everyone else does. We don't try to convert anyone to atheism...that would be ridiculous, because we don't care whether you believe or disbelieve.

It's not a religion. There's no doctrine of atheism. There are no gatherings where atheists come together to celebrate their atheism. I guess there are a few small groups that meet to discuss the subject, but most atheists wouldn't ever bother with such a thing. There's too much to do, and what would you discuss.

The only central thesis of the atheist is a disbelieve in deities and other supernatural entities. Atheists may be conservatives, liberals, fascists, communists, or holders of every other possible political philosophy.

But atheism simply isn't a religion. It's just a disbelief, nothing more.

If you wish to discuss what a particular atheist seems to do or think, then you have a topic for discussion, just as you might discuss the difference between a cloistered Catholic monk and a televangelist. Both declare Christianity, but they're worlds apart.

[wizardoz]

Atheism is the lack of theism. That's all it is. Now, there are various philosophies of which atheism is a founding principle or at least a natural result. They have nothing in common other than the atheism, however.

For example, Communism purports to be scientific, and is atheistic. Objectivism is philosophical, and is atheistic. Yet Communism and Objectivism are as opposite as you can get. They have no more in common than an Islamist and a Baptist.

[Sloth]

I pretty much agree. Agnosticism is the non-religious position. Atheism IS a religious faith.

[biblewonk]

Is it just me or is Atheism a religion?

Hell(bound) yes it is.

[whattajoke]

Does it ever occur to you just how childish, inane, and downright silly the concept of hell really is?

I mean, it worked on 4th graders at Catholic schools, but for adults? so silly.

[Rhetorical pi2]

My opinion: Atheism is an opinion. :o)

Worshipping is the central and organizing core of a religion. Since an Atheist does not believe there is anything to worship, he/she doesn't have a religion. It is a passive state.

However, should one believe that there is an all powerful force (or being) that created and organizes the universe and our lives, one would not be passive. One would be in such awe at such a power, intellect and force that it would be the dominant factor in guiding one's actions.

One would then worship, express one's beliefs to others, and encourage them to join one in worshipping. This is a religion.

To believe that there is a higher force/power/God is a choice most people make without analysis. The Christian Bible quotes their Savior/Son of God/Diety, Jesus Christ, as saying (paraphrasing) "come to me and accept me as a child".

This means it is not an intellectual exercise to decide to accept this belief. It is an unquestioning decision and commitment.

One does not accept a God as one solves an algebraic equation. It is not rational deduction. Religion and belief is accepting things humans do not understand, nor can they know - but do answer questions that we all have:

(1)Why am I here?
(2)Am I a superior being to other creatures on Earth.
(3)Does my life have meaning beyond eat, sleep, work, play, live, die.
(4)When I die, is that the end? Is there anything else beyond that event.
(5)Do I possess a "soul". Do humans have a "soul", or spiritual, not physical, essence as a part of our being.
(It would be comforting to believe that this was the case and that it existed in some way after we expire.)

Oh well, I'm not a church going, bible reading person, but I do understand those who are. And, I'm not a believer in ghosts, etc., but there have been occasions when I felt something - not physical - altered events for me (perhaps in a minor way). Whether it was my deceased Father or my good friend who died in a motorcycle accident, I had a subtle "sense" of being helped in some way.

That's why religions exist.

[wizardoz]

It is no more a religion that not believing in Santa Claus is a superstition, not playing baseball is a sport, or not building model train sets is a hobby

Doesn't that irritate you? Geez, that nonsense drives me up the wall. It's like this little commie grad student over in the Education department. "Everybody has an agenda! Even not having an agenda is having an agenda!"

[Rhetorical pi2]

My opinion: Atheism is an opinion. :o)

Worshipping is the central and organizing core of a religion. Since an Atheist does not believe there is anything to worship, he/she doesn't have a religion. It is a passive state.

However, should one believe that there is an all powerful force (or being) that created and organizes the universe and our lives, one would not be passive. One would be in such awe at such a power, intellect and force that it would be the dominant factor in guiding one's actions.

One would then worship, express one's beliefs to others, and encourage them to join one in worshipping. This is a religion.

To believe that their is a higher force/power/God is a choice most people make without analysis. The Christian Bible quotes their Savior/Son of God/Diety, Jesus Christ, as saying (paraphrasing) "come to me and accept me as a child".

This means it is not an intellectual exercise to decide to accept this belief. It is an unquestioning decision and commitment.

One does not accept a God as one solves an algebraic equation. It is not rational deduction. Religion and belief is accepting things humans do not understand, nor can they know - but do answer questions that we all have:

(1)Why am I here?
(2)Am I a superior being to other creatures on Earth.
(3)Does my life have meaning beyond eat, sleep, work, play, live, die.
(4)When I die, is that the end? Is there anything else beyond that event.
(5)Do I possess a "soul". Do humans have a "soul", or spiritual, not physical, essence as a part of our being.
(It would be comforting to believe that this was the case and that it existed in some way after we expire.)

Oh well, I'm not a church going, bible reading person, but I do understand those who are. And, I'm not a believer in ghosts, etc., but there have been occasions when I felt something - not physical - altered events for me. Whether it was my deceased Father or my good friend who died in a motorcycle accident, I had a subtle "sense" of being helped in some way.

That's why religions exist.

[TX Bluebonnet]

My religion professor in college considered it to be so and actually debated Madeline Murray Ohare about it at a symposium on campus. I wasn't there at the time, but he thinks he won the debate.

He used Paul Tillich's "Dynamics of Faith" which we studied in our class, which defines the object of your faith as your "ultimate concern". Since Madeline Murray O'Hares ultimate concern was Aetheism, that was her faith - or religion ( I think that's how the argument went - I'm a little rusty on Tillich)

[WackyKat]

The fact is--and nowhere is this seriously disputed--the universe did not generate itself.

Your statement is incorrect, there is plenty of dispute over the origin of the universe and one of the main positions is that the universe did, in fact, come into existence without a "creator"

[philosofy123]

Despite of our great knowledge of the world since the French revolution, and the age of enlightenment; American Christians, and most Moslems are still too religious in comparison to the Europeans, the Jews, or the Asians.

[newgeezer]

Of course it's a religion. It's the official state religion of every communist country, as well as most socialist nations. Soon, it will be the official religion of the U(S)SA in practice, if not in law.

[i are a cowboy]

I disagree that atheism is not a religion. Furthermore I believe fighting the use of the establishment clause against God in the public arena requires that we start thinking of it as such.

The only way we can stop the discrimination against Christians is to use the establishment clause in a way that prevents the government from establishing atheism as the religion of the state.

We have witnessed the failure of history to justify the presence of references to God in our government. We need to turn the whole thing around on the ACLU and fight fire with fire.

[WackyKat]

I prefer to speak of a person's "World and Life View". [or in German, his/her Weltenshaung (sorry if I spelled it wrong)], or just "world view"

I agree with you that worldview is a much better term. But the politicized theocrats call atheism a religion for purposes of their legal strategy- they want to force the schools to give equal time to Christianity(but no other religions) alongside science