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Ridge is ready to use UAVs; Fort and county could be base for a pilot project next year
Sierra Vista Herald, Sierra Vista Arizona ^ | 125/04/03 | Bill Hess

Posted on 12/04/2003 4:54:28 PM PST by SandRat

BISBEE -- The U.S. Border Patrol should be flying unmanned aerial vehicles out of Fort Huachuca next year as part of a pilot project in Cochise County, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said this morning.

After seeing the Army's UAV program on Fort Huachuca Wednesday afternoon, Ridge said the technology of the pilotless planes is what the federal agency needs to stem the flow of illegal immigrants along the border.

Ridge said the fort has everything needed for the UAV program, such as restricted airspace. Army soldiers training on UAVs also occasionally participate in Border Patrol exercises.

UAVs are "definitely a force multiplier," Ridge said today as he sat in the Copper Queen Hotel.

He spent the night in Bisbee after touring the post and flying in a helicopter along the border from Lochiel in Santa Cruz County to the New Mexico state line. Most of the flight was in Cochise County.

Ridge said his department has to leverage existing technology. The Department of Defense, especially the Army, is a leader in the type of unmanned aerial vehicles Customs and Border Patrol can use, he said.

Maj. Gen. James Marks, commander of the Intelligence Center, hosted the secretary on the fort.

Ridge's visit was good for everyone, the general said.

When Ridge arrived, a Hunter UAV took video of the secretary. When he arrived at the training area, he was shown the tape, Marks said.

Ridge was able to watch a launch of a Shadow, another tactical UAV the Army has, and saw a display of the different capabilities including smaller unmanned aerial vehicles the Army may have in the future, the general said.

Ridge praised the soldiers on the post, which Marks said was good to hear "from an (enlisted) infantryman who served in Vietnam."

U.S. Rep. Jim Kolbe, R-Ariz., and U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., were with Ridge during his tour on post and flight along the U.S.-Mexico border.

Kolbe, McCain and other members of the Arizona congressional delegation have been pushing for a U.S. Border Patrol UAV program, suggesting it should operate out of Fort Huachuca which has existing training facilities and runways.

Ridge said he sees how his department and the Department of Defense can work together to get more value out of the UAVs. He said he has always been interested in unmanned aircraft. When he became the secretary for homeland security, he wanted to look at the pilotless planes even more to see what kind of application they can have to secure the nation's borders.

The Border Patrol, like the military, has a mission to protect the nation. Ridge said his department can learn faster by using existing technology.

Kolbe, who along with McCain had dinner with Ridge at the Copper Queen Hotel, said that while Ridge's trip to Arizona was quick, it gave him a look at the problems facing officials and residents who live along the border with Mexico.

Ridge said his helicopter tour was an eye-opener. He only got to see a quarter of the 270 miles of border that Arizona shares with Mexico. He said he was taken back by the destruction being caused by illegal activities.

Even during the flight as dusk began to fall and from briefings he received, Ridge said the environment is being destroyed by the litter being left by illegal immigrants.

It appears there may be more apprehensions of illegal immigrants this year because of additional agents and technology such as sensors being used, he said.

Ridge said he knows Cochise County is the major hot spot for illegal immigration activities and part of the problem why the county area and other parts of the border in Arizona are the traffic areas is because other federal agencies have restrictions on what the U.S. Border Patrol people can do on land they control, Ridge said.

That has to stop and he plans to set up a task force of the four or five federal agencies that have land along the border to work together so U.S. Border Patrol agents can have better access to public lands to do their job.

"The coyotes have sophisticated intelligence and they know where our guys and gals can go and where they can't," Ridge said. "That is a big green light (for those involved in illegal activities)."

Another issue that has to be addressed in more detail is the financial loss suffered by border medical facilities, Ridge said. There are many border problems, and the Department of Homeland Security is looking at how to address the problems.

He said he wanted to apologize to local officials and residents that he did not have the time to meet with them on this trip. This is his first trip to Arizona in is current position, and the first time has seen a major rural portion of the border with Mexico, although he has seen border problems in San Diego, Calif., and El Paso, Texas.

On Wednesday, Kolbe said he also wished Ridge had some time to meet with local officials and resident of Cochise County.

Ridge said he intends to return to Arizona and hopefully arrange meetings to hear from local people about their border concerns. He does get information from his people serving in the field and members of Arizona's congressional delegation, but Ridge said it will be good to hear local views in person.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; US: Arizona; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; arizona; illegalalien; immigrantlist; mexico; ridge; uav
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
Yep! What a WOW factor for the media and public to show off those expensive UAVs with a tag line on its success on the front. Seeing is believing. When the numbers of our darling "undocumented workers" from our southern neighbor drops significantly, I'll believe.
21 posted on 12/05/2003 12:26:33 AM PST by endthematrix
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To: HiJinx
There are plenty of eyes from DNR and others on the ground. Problem is not enough BP agents and spread far too thin.
22 posted on 12/05/2003 12:32:08 AM PST by endthematrix
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To: HiJinx
I would worry they would get shot down by drug smuggler's
23 posted on 12/05/2003 2:30:45 AM PST by JustPiper (Teach the Children to fight Liberalism ! They will be voting in 2008 !!!)
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To: endthematrix
Actually, we only have 2 or 3 DNR (Game and Fish in AZ) agents in the area, but you are mostly correct when you consider the civilians who are out and about watching the border crossing points.

And you 110% correct when you say we need more BP agents and assets down here. Something as simple as transport...ICE simply does not have enough buses and vans to transport the illegals back to the border in an efficient manner.

(And please, don't talk about repeat crossers. I know they're going to come right back over! I know that we need to transport them deep into the interior, but that's not possible without a change in the status quo between the US and Mexico.)
24 posted on 12/05/2003 6:12:42 AM PST by HiJinx (Go with Courage, go with Honor, go in God's Grace. Come home when the job's done. We'll be here.)
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To: HiJinx
I'm not going to hold my breath re:post#3, I'm very much afraid this is window-dressing. If they were serious, all UAV flights, training and otherwise, would be carried out in support of the Border Patrol starting yesterday.

And forget things like:

1. Posse Comitatus Act

2. Congress has not appropriated money for this mission, so the executive can't spend it for this mission

3. A majority of the UAV flights are RDT&E efforts with specific objectives that cannot be recast to support the Border Patrol

4. Tom Ridge is the Secretary of Homeland Security, not the Secretary of Defense

And the beat goes on...

Our system of government is not designed to turn on a dime, or the whim of a cabinet secretary. Our problem with the judiciary, for example, comes down to the fact that they are turning our system of government on a dime.

25 posted on 12/05/2003 6:18:27 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: Poohbah
3. A majority of the UAV flights are RDT&E efforts with specific objectives that cannot be recast to support the Border Patrol

All very good points, Poohbah, except that one. Almost every UAV flight here at Ft. Huachuca is a training mission. This is where we train Army UAV pilots. It wouldn't take a Secretarial or DoD decision to train along the border.

It would, however, take a high level decision to convert the missions to BP support. Part of my concern in my previous post is that all of these decisions were begging to be made at least 5 years ago and the Army support to BP could have been in place for at least 2 years if not longer.

In fact, to avoid the Waco debacle (military equipment and personnel in support of civilian law enforcement), 5 years is more than enough time for DoJ to purchase the hardware and train the operators so that the DoD is left out of the equation.

26 posted on 12/05/2003 6:28:16 AM PST by HiJinx (Go with Courage, go with Honor, go in God's Grace. Come home when the job's done. We'll be here.)
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To: HiJinx
All very good points, Poohbah, except that one. Almost every UAV flight here at Ft. Huachuca is a training mission. This is where we train Army UAV pilots. It wouldn't take a Secretarial or DoD decision to train along the border.

No, it wouldn't; it would take a CONGRESSIONAL decision--refer to the Posse Comitatus Act.

27 posted on 12/05/2003 8:13:06 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: Poohbah
No, it wouldn't; it would take a CONGRESSIONAL decision--refer to the Posse Comitatus Act.

I'm going to split hairs here, although the point is moot if BICE buys UAVs and trains their operators, separate from any military action.

It takes Congressional action to allow the military to support civilian law enforcement. It only takes local command authority - a 2-star general - to establish training flight parameters. He will necessarily need to coordinate with the FAA for flight restriction rules, but that isn't a problem.

And this is not an arguable point. It - military training off the reservation - is current practice here at Ft. Huachuca. Support to BICE is not, however, happening at this time.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you that the military should not be supporting BICE. But their experience should be transferred to that agency.

28 posted on 12/05/2003 8:53:10 AM PST by HiJinx (Go with Courage, go with Honor, go in God's Grace. Come home when the job's done. We'll be here.)
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To: HiJinx
It takes Congressional action to allow the military to support civilian law enforcement. It only takes local command authority - a 2-star general - to establish training flight parameters.

But nothing that gets gathered on those missions can go to law enforcement, so there's no point. Additionally, flying those things along the border raises the possibility of losing one in Mexico, which would be a "vey series" security headache.

29 posted on 12/05/2003 9:09:48 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: Poohbah
possibility of losing one in Mexico, which would be a "vey series" security headache.

We did that. A contractor programmed an exta zero into the 'go to' location when they were doing the testing of the Hunter or Shadow back in '95. The 'go to' location is a pre-programmed coordinate that the bird flies to if it loses the comms link.

The extra zero resulted in the UAV taking up a heading of about 180 degrees. It ran out of fuel somewhere over the Gulf of California, and the Mexican government did indeed raise a stink.

30 posted on 12/05/2003 9:22:03 AM PST by HiJinx (Go with Courage, go with Honor, go in God's Grace. Come home when the job's done. We'll be here.)
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To: HiJinx
I'm more worried about what happens if one comes down over land. It might wind up growing legs, if you will.
31 posted on 12/05/2003 9:24:30 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: texastoo
Well, to listen to some of the naysayers in California, Arnold didn't oppose illegal immigration very strongly. I disagree, saying he'd call for a regional conference of governors to address the problem, and to approach the federal government. Arnold's threat to hit up the feds for money to absorb the impact of illegal immigration I think was a warning shot to the federal government, and a shrewd move.
32 posted on 12/05/2003 10:07:14 AM PST by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again...")
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To: My2Cents
The voters of California have spoken. All politicians can spin the results any which way. But the bottom line is illegal immigration is an issue.
33 posted on 12/05/2003 10:20:45 AM PST by texastoo (What a Continent!!! (sarcasm))
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To: Poohbah
That's quite possible...and why a relatively 'cheap' throw-away using off-the-shelf technology such as Glenn Spencer uses would be the answer.

You don't give away any secrets, then. And his UAVs are so small, you can't arm them. They just won't carry anything heavier than a coupla hand grenades...hmmm...well, maybe you could arm them, then...ouch!
34 posted on 12/05/2003 11:25:48 AM PST by HiJinx (Go with Courage, go with Honor, go in God's Grace. Come home when the job's done. We'll be here.)
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To: endthematrix
You know what's funny? They were partly embarassed into this by citizens who took private action, flying little more than model planes with cheap cameras over border areas.

It's like cameras in the ghetto-"We don't need better enforcement or more arrests, we just need to put up a few cameras and crime would go down just the same."

Plays well, though, doesn't it? It's easier to sell a bill of goods when you can show off the hi tech hardware.
35 posted on 12/05/2003 2:01:11 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals
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To: B4Ranch
A private group was flying little more than model airplanes with cameras and embarassed the govt.
36 posted on 12/05/2003 2:04:14 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals
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To: SandRat
Maybe Ridge got my letter?
37 posted on 12/05/2003 2:34:22 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Don't avoid. Read Joe Guzzardi.)
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