Bush Told in Baghdad (Iraq): Guerrillas Taking Heavy Losses, Retreating from Sunni Triangle (Debka)

Debka ^ | Nov. 30, 2003 | Debka

[Enterprise]

Whenever our allies are killed, and we are able to determine who did it and capture those responsible, we should immediately hand them over to the country that suffered the loss. Especially South Korea.

[GreenHornet]

Thanks for the background info on Debka. Since people here have very strong feelings (pro or con) regarding the validity of reports attributed to Debka, I've been curious about this source. I'll follow your suggestion and check it out.

[mikenola]

Sometimes you don't need the full 10-day forecast, you just need to know which way the wind is blowing.

I think DEBKA is useful for that, just don't take it as gospel. It's similar to the "Washington Whispers" type columns that run in major newspapers. Just a rough sketch.

Personally, I tend to take the Israelis pretty serious when it comes to terrorism issues, they have more experience than anyone around.

[FairOpinion]

"Whenever our allies are killed, and we are able to determine who did it and capture those responsible, we should immediately hand them over to the country that suffered the loss. Especially South Korea."

==

Yes -- that would serve them right.

BTW -- Al Jazeera is already starting about the "innocents" killed -- the Dems are going to pick this up any minute now.

Innocents killed in Samarra bloodbath
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E56B8E35-2484-40C5-935E-B452A2C74769.htm

"But local residents said US troops killed innocent bystanders when they opened fire on anything that moved around midday."


If we did kill "innocent bystanders" -- their blood should be on the heads of the terrorists who attacked us, while innocent bystanders were around, not on our heads, for defending ourselves.

Even Al Jazeera includes in their article:

"The attackers fired rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons at the convoy from rooftops of buildings and from the alleyways," said MacDonald, adding that mortars and improvised bombs also were used against the US soldiers. "

What were we supposed to do, just let ourselves be massacred? Not to mention, that the terrorist attackers do not pay much attention to innocent bystanders -- and even in this case, it may well be that they killed them, not we.

[livius]

It's the way Neal Boortz describes his program - don't believe it unless you check it out.

However, most people who have a reasonable idea (from other sources) of what's going on will know enough to verify Debka.

Personally, I have found Debka to be pretty reasonable, and as someone pointed out, a lot of the info is corroborated - much later. I find that it tends to "project" information a bit more than it should. That is, it takes a fact and runs with it to conclusions that don't happen - but I think it's a worthwhile source. And nothing in this article seems unreasonable, and in fact, much of it has already been reported elsewhere.

[prairiebreeze]

Al Jazeera is already starting about the "innocents" killed -- the Dems are going to pick this up any minute now.

My, that didn't take long, did it. The DNC is receiving it's talking points from it's Arab chapter I see. Changing tag lines...

Prairie

[Dave Elias]

One might easily say the same about Israel. It too is a contrived country, again a British concoction.

[FairOpinion]

Apparently it IS being discussed quietly. I personally see both pluses and minuses and don't know how it would ultimately play out, but it's a possibility worth considering.

Gelb wrote an article in the NY Times about it, Nov. 25.

The Three-State Solution
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/25/opinion/25GELB.html

The only viable strategy, then, may be to correct the historical defect and move in stages toward a three-state solution: Kurds in the north, Sunnis in the center and Shiites in the south.

Almost immediately, this would allow America to put most of its money and troops where they would do the most good quickly — with the Kurds and Shiites. The United States could extricate most of its forces from the so-called Sunni Triangle, north and west of Baghdad, largely freeing American forces from fighting a costly war they might not win. American officials could then wait for the troublesome and domineering Sunnis, without oil or oil revenues, to moderate their ambitions or suffer the consequences.

This three-state solution has been unthinkable in Washington for decades. After the Iranian revolution in 1979, a united Iraq was thought necessary to counter an anti-American Iran. Since the gulf war in 1991, a whole Iraq was deemed essential to preventing neighbors like Turkey, Syria and Iran from picking at the pieces and igniting wider wars.

But times have changed. The Kurds have largely been autonomous for years, and Ankara has lived with that. So long as the Kurds don't move precipitously toward statehood or incite insurgencies in Turkey or Iran, these neighbors will accept their autonomy. It is true that a Shiite self-governing region could become a theocratic state or fall into an Iranian embrace. But for now, neither possibility seems likely.

[Dave Elias]

If we did kill "innocent bystanders" -- their blood should be on the heads of the terrorists who attacked us, while innocent bystanders were around, not on our heads, for defending ourselves.

Terrorists? The fact they are primarily targetting foreign troopers makes them sound like guerillas.

[Jim Noble]

One might easily say the same about Israel. It too is a contrived country, again a British concoction

It remains to be seen whether the Jews will defend Israel, or not.

But their nationhood is not in doubt. An Israeli Jew is not at all like an "Iraqi" or a "Pakistani".

If Syria took over the Sunni triangle tomorrow, by Wednesday the "Iraqis" would be Syrians. If Syria took over Israel tomorrow, in a thousand years the surviving Jews, if any, would still be the people of Israel.

[zencat]

Debka is OK. I certainly don't believe everything I read on Debka, but they often do have information that is correct but cannot be found in the mainstream media.

Some articles on Debka are good, others are questionable. It's worth reading, but you'll need to filter by using other sources.

[wtc911]

I communicate with troops with 327 and 187 of the 101st on a regular e-mail basis. They tell me that the body count on the other side is and has been high. Our guys are giving a whole lot more than they're getting.

[Enterprise]

The deaths of innocents is always terrible. However, when our troops are under attack, they should open up with all they got. Cold - but it's the way I feel.

[NYKbyD]

Any way you can help me get in touch with anyone in the 1 battalion of the 187th. A friend of mines son was a Sergeant in that unit killed back in July. I want to send a care package to his unit but need contacts to sent to.

[wtc911]

I will freepmail the apo for 1/187 tomorrow a.m. but I don't know if it will get there without an individual's name.

[Company Man]

Terrorists? The fact they are primarily targetting foreign troopers makes them sound like guerillas. You're not too familiar with the Fayadeen, are you? This is the same bunch that that have pushed civilians directly into the line of fire , and forced civilians to attack the coalition (and suffer certain death) by holding their family members hostage.

[Chu Gary]

Welcome to FreeRepublic, Mr. 11/20/03.

[festus]

If you are right and Saddam goes to France then I believe we should rescind the treaty that ended WWII and tell Germany we will only accept their surrender if they agree to keep France as one of their own territories........

(Rumor has it this was part of our original demands but the Germans would have fought to the last man to avoid having to keep France...... ;-)

Either that or just flatten France.....

[Dave Elias]

"You're not too familiar with the Fayadeen, are you? This is the same bunch that that have pushed civilians directly into the line of fire , and forced civilians to attack the coalition (and suffer certain death) by holding their family members hostage."

I never said they were nice, just not terrorists. What you described is not an act of terrorism, but a war crime under paragraph 2 of article 8 of the Geneva conventions.

[Dave Elias]

Pakistan and Israel are completely analogous. Both were set up along line of religious make-up. Both were set up through Machieavellian expediency rather than through altruism or religious sympathies.

Actually now I come to think of it Jewish 'terrorists', David Ben Gurion and Menachem Begin blowing up British hotels were pretty instrumental in the process too. Both men later became Israeli PMs, go figure!