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Bush Told in Baghdad (Iraq): Guerrillas Taking Heavy Losses, Retreating from Sunni Triangle (Debka)
Debka ^ | Nov. 30, 2003 | Debka

Posted on 11/30/2003 3:49:16 PM PST by FairOpinion

Secret progress report handed Bush in Baghdad Thursday discloses Saddam guerrillas taking heavy losses – totaling 1,100 men equal to one-fifth of their strength – and in retreat from Sunni Triangle. Fearing US may opt for three-state solution Iraqi insurgents extend warfare to Kurdish and Shiite regions

US ground forces commander in Iraq, Lt.-Gen. Ricardo Sanchez suffered the misfortune of mistimed optimism. Saturday, November 29, he told a news briefing that the number of Iraqi attacks had dropped by 30 percent in November. No sooner had a spoken then a succession of five deadly ambushes left 12 non-Americans, one American civilian and two 3rd Armored Divisions troops dead between Saturday and Sunday morning. Seven were members of an 8-member Spanish Intelligence team on the road from Najef to Baghdad, two Japanese diplomats who had just left Tikrit after attending a reconstruction aid conference, two Korean electricians in the same region, one American civilian and one Colombian contractor near Balad.

The American fatalities were claimed by a rocket-propelled grenade attack on their convoy near the Iraqi-Syrian border town of Husaybah.

In just a few hours, November’s death toll in Iraq shot up to 115, the highest since May.

Still, Gen. Sanchez was technically correct. November saw 30pc less attacks by Iraqi insurgents and their foreign helpers. On the other hand, it was the bloodiest in terms of coalition casualties - up 35pc – meaning enemy assaults were fewer but more effective.

DEBKAfile’s military sources reveal that of the two hours, 32 minutes President George W. Bush spent in Baghdad on his surprise Thanksgiving trip last Thursday, November 27, he visited the troops for one hour. Away from the cameras, he was closeted very privately for another hour with US and military commanders in Iraq and the remaining half hour with four members of the interim Iraq Governing Council.

Given the news of the 30pc decline in guerilla attacks in November, Bush was also handed four intelligence assessments recording shifts in the Iraqi-US balance. They are revealed here for the first time by DEBKAfile’s military sources:

1. Iraqi guerrilla commanders find it much harder to execute their original hit-and-run tactics against large American military convoys which are now much better defended, often with air cover. Small convoys, lone vehicles and soft targets are easier prey.

2. US forces are now capturing Iraqi and foreign fighters in large numbers. In recent weeks, more than 1,100 have been killed or captured in US military raids, draining off around one-fifth of the total estimated pro-Saddam strength of 5,000 fighting men.

3. Iraqi insurgent forces used the just-ended Ramadan month to regroup and review strategy and are now striving for two objectives: a) creating a sympathetic base among the general population to support combatants; b) relocating their flashpoint center out of the Sunni Triangle - where the US 4th Division has gained familiarity with the territory and the forces fighting there - to the Kurdish and Shiite regions of the north and center-south.

The US President also heard that pro-Saddam tacticians found it necessary to reorient their confrontation with US forces because they are worried by the progress made in the two outer regions towards firm local government institutions and systems, unlike the battle-torn Sunni area north of Baghdad. They fear Washington might turn away from a unified Iraq and opt for a three-state solution. The Kurdish and the Shiite states would end up with Iraq’s oil riches. The US would dump the Sunni state and redeploy in defensive array in the other two.

This fear was exacerbated by an article that Saddam Hussein and his men, who though on the run, must have heard about.

”Divide Iraq into Three States – Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds” is the title of the article appearing in The New York Times article of November 26, the day before Thanksgiving. It was written by Leslie Gelb, president emeritus of the influential Council of Foreign Relations, and looks like a trial balloon by the Bush administration to see how the concept of partition goes down with American, Arab and European opinion.

4. Saddam Hussein’s supporters are also worried about developments unfolding in two key regions of the country:

Mosul: Former Iraqi defense minister Gen. Sultan Hashem, who is reported to have played ball with the Americans since well before the invasion, has obeyed the promptings of US administrator Paul Bremer and gone back to his Tai tribe – a large and important group that is spread out in territory ranging from Mosul in the east to the Iraqi-Syrian border in the west. Sections of important oil pipelines run through these lands. The Tai and other tribes in this area are not on good terms with the Sunni tribes of the Tikrit-Falluja region, the backbone of Saddam’s following. It is hoped that ex-general Hashem will help US efforts to stabilize this key strategic region. According to DEBKAfile’s military sources, other Sunni tribes have also been conscripted by means of substantial cash incentives and promises of more to come for security maintenance of the oil pipe network running through their lands.

South and Shiite Region: The US administration has managed to rein in the most unstable Shiite element, the fiery young Seyed Moqtada Sadr, the boss of the Shiite quarters of Baghdad who spearheaded the opposition to Shiite leaders cooperating with the Americans. Bremer has cultivated friendly relations with the two most eminent Shiite leaders, the Grand Ayatollah Sistani and Mohsein al-Hakim, the Shiite representative on the interim Governing Council. Both have acquired an interest in keeping the American civilian and military presence in the country for as long as possible.

While the US President was encouraged by the progress report he received during his brief stay at Baghdad airport, as soon as he left, Saddam’s guerrilla forces redoubled their offensive. Two days later, on Saturday, November 29, they singled out targets near the Iraqi-Syrian border and around the Shiite holy city of Najef, as well as the Sunni Triangle, to demonstrate the lengthened extent of their reach. On the last day of November, US forces struck a counter-blow to even the score. Men of a 4th infantry division convoy armed with heavy tanks and helicopters confronted Saddam’s guerrillas ready to mount an ambush in Samara. They killed 46 guerrillas and captured eight, losing five American wounded.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: debka; iraq; killed; rebuildingiraq; strategy
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Now when is the main media going to pick this up.

I think the recent 46 Iraqi terrorists killed is the first of many more good news, that we will be releasing.

It's about time, we start announcing our victories too.

1 posted on 11/30/2003 3:49:16 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Are you kidding? This is Debka. According to them, the world has been destroyed three times just last week.
2 posted on 11/30/2003 3:56:29 PM PST by FirstPrinciple
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To: FirstPrinciple
Debka is very frequently right.

This particular article seems very credible.

I find it quite believable that we did kill over 1000 Iraqi Saddam loyalists, who have been attacking us, and the current success of killing 46 of those who ambused us is just one of many such successes.
3 posted on 11/30/2003 4:06:38 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Call me an optimist, but I think in the coming days, we'll see proof of Saddam's death or his exit to France, Iran, or to another anti-America country.
4 posted on 11/30/2003 4:09:54 PM PST by onyx
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To: FairOpinion
I find it believable that we killed 20% of the enemy. However, I dont think they will abandon the Sunni triangle. That is their last stand.
5 posted on 11/30/2003 4:10:24 PM PST by FirstPrinciple
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To: onyx
I hope you are right.
Maybe thats why he needed to capture the money today.
The billions of money stolen at the bank will expire in Jan.'04. Sounds like they are starting to need a fresh supply.
6 posted on 11/30/2003 4:18:31 PM PST by mickie
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To: mickie
No pun intended, but I think you're right on the money.
7 posted on 11/30/2003 4:19:30 PM PST by onyx
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To: FairOpinion
Please do not post anything from debka.
8 posted on 11/30/2003 4:19:53 PM PST by ChadGore (Kakkate Koi!)
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To: FirstPrinciple
They have had, unforunately, enough time to re-form some of the secret police/informer apparatus and fedayeen groups.

However, they are still stupid enough (or desperate enough) to attack US armored convoys with small arms, which tells me they are afraid to wait a year or so until most US troops are gone or over the horizon and a new Iraqi gov is formed and then work to overthrow it.

They are hoping to force Bush's defeat next November and drive our coalition partners away with terror attacks on soft targets. I do not think they will succeed in either goal.

9 posted on 11/30/2003 4:25:08 PM PST by pierrem15
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To: ChadGore
Why not? They're at least as credible as the New York Times.
10 posted on 11/30/2003 4:31:26 PM PST by Adrastus
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To: Adrastus; ChadGore
"They're at least as credible as the New York Times."

==

I agree -- actually Debka is much more credible.
11 posted on 11/30/2003 4:34:15 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
"Divide Iraq into Three States – Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds” is the title of the article appearing in The New York Times article of November 26, the day before Thanksgiving. It was written by Leslie Gelb, president emeritus of the influential Council of Foreign Relations, and looks like a trial balloon by the Bush administration to see how the concept of partition goes down with American, Arab and European opinion.

I missed the original article, but if true, that's fantastic news.

The worst mistake Bush made prewar was to guarantee the territorial integrity of "Iraq", a fictitious country invented in London in 1922 to justify the Eastern frontier of Turkey.

There was nothing-and is nothing-to tie together the former Ottoman vilayets of Mosul, Mesopotamia, and Basra into "Iraq", just as there was and is nothing to tie together the Indian provinces of Sind, Baluchistan, Punjab, and NW Frontier into "Pakistan".

The sooner these Islamic fantasy states are dissolved, the better-and even though it's DEBKA, if such a proposal has surfaced in the Administration, there is a major reason for optimism.

12 posted on 11/30/2003 4:35:26 PM PST by Jim Noble
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To: Adrastus
Why not? They're at least as credible as the New York Times.

Damned with faint praise indeed.

13 posted on 11/30/2003 4:36:24 PM PST by JoeSchem
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To: ChadGore
Which part of the article do you specifically not believe?

There may be some details, which may not be fully accurate, but all in all, I think it's quite credible.

Which is easier to believe, that we have been taking casualties for months and we haven't been causing any, or that while we lost 100 of our troops, we killed over 1000 enemy attackers, as Debka says?
14 posted on 11/30/2003 4:38:02 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
I've been around for a while, and maybe I should already know this, but somebody please help me out here: Exactly who or what is "Debka"?
15 posted on 11/30/2003 4:39:39 PM PST by GreenHornet
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To: FairOpinion
Debka is very frequently right. And so is a broken clock, twice a day!
16 posted on 11/30/2003 4:40:13 PM PST by Terp (Retired US Navy now living in Philippines were the Mountains meet the Sea in the Land of Smiles)
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To: FairOpinion
The story about 46 dead Saddam Fedayeen and a couple dozen more captured has been out for a while and Debka is not making this up.

I like reading Debka stories but they should come with a disclaimer. Sometimes they are so far-fetched that they provide good entertainment. At other times they appear to be carefully timed and calculated disinformation by somebody (Mossad maybe?) who has a dog in this fight.

Don't believe a word these guys post without corroboration.
17 posted on 11/30/2003 4:42:53 PM PST by SBprone
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To: GreenHornet
"Exactly who or what is "Debka"?"

Check them out:

http://www.debka.com/

They are an Israeli "intel/news" site. They frequently report information no in the main media -- some of it never gets confirmed or proven false, some of it is proven true, and is picked up by the newsmedia literally month later, sometimes.

Some people have a genetic hatred of Debka and wouldn't believe them, if they announced that the Sun will rise tomorrow, and every time an article is posted from Debka, they feel an urge to proclaim how unreliable Debka is.

I personally have seen it mentioned on another message board a few years ago -- I had nothing for or against them. I have been following them reasonably closely and found them to be quite accurate with many things.

Since some of their info is based on "clandastine sources", sometimes they engage in speculation, because intel by it's nature is not 100%.

They are pretty interesting to read.

I would suggest you keep an open mind and look in on them occasionally and make up your own mind.

Here is the link to their "about us" page, which will also give you a bit more info:

http://www.debka.com/doc/about.php

"58% of our viewers are aged from 25 to 46, including many members of the free professions, government officials, financial leaders, military and intelligence personnel, academics, students and incorrigible skeptics.

Our articles are regularly quoted and credited by a host of international television, radio and print media. Frequent requests for specialist interviews are received by our editorial staff and experts.

DEBKAfile has been cited as Best of the Web by Forbes, selected Hot Site by USATODAY and profiled in the New York Observer (A Web Site With the Inside Dope on the Middle East), Time Magazine, Le Monde, Paris Corriere della Sera, Milan, Wired News (Debka: Conflict’s Drudge Report?), NEW MEDIA ( For the real skinny on the Afghan story), Haaretz Magazine and Globes Digital. Articles are in preparation in Harpers and Rolling Stone.

A brief roundup of their comments is appended to this page."

18 posted on 11/30/2003 4:48:12 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
If Debka is saying this, then we are losing the war.
19 posted on 11/30/2003 4:49:34 PM PST by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: xm177e2
"If Debka is saying this, then we are losing the war."

==

Yes, Hillary. ;)
20 posted on 11/30/2003 4:50:55 PM PST by FairOpinion
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