VANITY Need help debunking Creationist Stevin A. Austin

[Merdoug]

A friend of mine wanted me to watch a "documentary" by Stevin A Austin on the eruption of Mt. Saint Helens. In this film ( the entire thing which I could not stomach thru) it explains how volcanic eruptions can cause the layering which is found in the the Earth's rocks. I know that such layering caused by volcanic gas and mud, knocking down trees, is not like sedimentary rock, but I can't explain it very well to my friend. Does anyone have a link to a good page explaining Mr. Austin's works from an evolutionist's point of view? Thanks! Doug

[Experiment 6-2-6]

explains how volcanic eruptions can cause the layering which is found in the the Earth's rocks. I know that such layering caused by volcanic gas and mud, knocking down trees, is not like sedimentary rock,

Layering, like, as in Sedimentary rock, is normal from the deposits of such things as calcium deposits, mud, plants, etc.

Ergo, the trees and mud knocked down by Mt. St. Helens, would, over time and pressure, produce sedimentary rock.. Lava flow or magma displacement, also known as igneous rock, is usually not "layered".

Not sure what your problem is?

[CobaltBlue]

Sedimentary rocks - "This laying down of rock-forming material by a natural agent is called deposition. Natural agents of deposition are water, ice, gravity, and wind."
http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/vwlessons/lessons/Sedrocks/Sedrocks3.html

[Merdoug]

If I posted this in breaking news, I am sorry; I did not intend to do so.

[CobaltBlue]

The site I linked to you also defines igneous and metamorphic rocks:
http://www.volcanoworld.org/vwdocs/vwlessons/lessons/Rocks/Rocks8.html

[Gritty]

You can probably find the answers to most of your questions HERE

[TXnMA]

You can probably find the answers to most of your questions < A HREF="http://www.creationscience.com" >HERE < /A >

Yeah...riiiight!

That's like asking the hogs how to keep the pigsty from stinking...

[old-ager]

Genesis 1


The Beginning of Creation

1In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

The Six Days of Creation

3And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
6And God said, "Let there be an expanse[1] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." 7And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8And God called the expanse Heaven.[2] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. 10God called the dry land Earth,[3] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[4] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so. 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.
14And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons,[5] and for days and years, 15and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so. 16And God made[6] the two great lights--the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night--and the stars. 17And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
20And God said, "Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[7] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens." 21So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
24And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds--livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so. 25And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26Then God said, "Let us make man[8] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
27So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth." 29And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so. 31And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

[PatrickHenry]

Here you go. This mentions Austin's claims: Coal Beds, Creationism, and Mount St. Helens.

[Merdoug]

I know that death is a scary thing, but I'd rather face the truth than to delude myself with a "magical man in the sky." It's hard to believe that, in 50,000 years, we are still the same superstitious savages as our ancestors who quaked at the "thundergods". Funny how, if a disaster kills thousands, we always thank God if one is left alive. If I had the same odds for sucess, I'd be worshipped too. No thanks. I don't want your God. If He exists, he's a twisted loner who created us to keep Himself from bordom by torturing us. He's pathetic, really. But I know I won't change believers' minds. Their whole life is comforted by their afterlife dreams and, if they stopped believing, their lives would come crashing down. They can just keep believing in their magical dreamworld where angels fly around on dove wings and people get crucified, wonder why their "creator" didn't save them, and end up becoming mythical gods themselves.

[Gritty]

Re: your Post #10.

I was saying the same thing about 20 years ago. So, your sentiments are not original in the least.

[george wythe]

A person asks an explanation from an evolutionist point of view.

Your link was a non-responsive answer, unless you were making fun of his request.

[old-ager]

Psalm 14


The Fool Says, There Is No God
To the choirmaster. Of David.

1The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.

[adakota]

I believe Christians believe in a Creator or Designer because of faith and/or reason. They beleive God can be seen by His handiwork - nature. The deeper we delve into Creation, the more complex it becomes. The human body is awe inspiring with it's respiratory, circulatory, nervous, skeletal systems...all controlled by information. Complexity with information equals a designer.

If God was a loner, why would He create others?

If your "odds" were 1/1000 at anything, you would be doing better than the mathematical possibility of spontaneous generation, but you would still be viewed as a loser.

We torture ourselves; God doesn't need to help us with that.

Death is not a scary thing for Christians.

From your post, I gather you are filled with hate and anger. You must ask yourself an honest question: Is the cause due to God, others or yourself? Find the answer to that and you may find peace.

[Gritty]

Your link was a non-responsive answer, unless you were making fun of his request.

A previous poster (CobaltBlue) had given links explaining some of the geological processes with some evolutionary viewpoint timelines which fit into the evolutionary model.

Mine was not a "non-responsive" answer. I was responding to Merdoug's request for more information, although not refuting Austin, but instead giving links buttressing his arguments. I was pointing him to a site with in-depth arguments. Some of them may be directly attributed to Austin, who Merdoug is probably not familiar with but who has done a lot of original field research.

So, I was not making fun of Merdoug's request at all. His request for information is reasonable. A lot of people have the same sort of questions on these subjects. They deserve answers if available. ICR is a good source for many of those answers from a Creationist viewpoint by actual scientist and researchers.

Merdoug may read the various articles and reject them, just as you may - and that is his right. But if he is honestly searching for answers on these subjects, he cannot in any honesty ignore the other side of certain arguments just because he is not familiar with them. But, he is not alone. Many people aren't familiar with them. He can take the opportunity to explore all sides and make his decision. It is his choice, and I hope he finds the satisfactory answers he needs.

[Revolting cat!]

troll

An outrageous message posted to a newsgroup or mailing list or message board to bait people to answer. Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it. Also, the person who posts such messages.

[Cinnamon Girl]

What's so scary for you about believing that G-d made the universe?

[The Shootist]

creationscience.com.

Best example of an oxymoron I've ever seen.

[TaxRelief]

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe, but I'm willing to bet that you have never even attempted to meet God.