Ala. Baptist resolutions include Ten Commandments, war in Iraq

BP ^ | Nov 20, 2003

[yonif]

MOBILE, Ala. (BP)--Messengers at the Alabama Baptist Convention in Mobile, Ala., Nov. 18-19 passed a resolution supporting "the recognition of the biblical antecedents of our legal system and the public display of the Ten Commandments" and calling upon "all elected officials to uphold righteousness, acknowledge the biblical foundations of government, and contend for the right of religious expression provided for the American people within the Constitution of the United States of America."

The resolution also warned "there are forces at work in this nation that, if left unhindered, would execute an agenda to systematically remove references to God from the public domain," and it noted that "the moral precepts and very words from the Bible have constituted an integral part of the fabric of American legal history."

Some debate over the resolution occurred, and former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore's name was struck from the paragraph noting his support of the Ten Commandments. The new paragraph acknowledged simply that "many of our civic leaders have demonstrated their support for the constitutional rights of Alabamians and Americans to acknowledge the moral foundation of our society as expressed in the Ten Commandments."

Messengers gathered at Cottage Hill Baptist Church also passed a resolution affirming President Bush, Congress and the armed forces for their leadership in Operation Iraqi Freedom. The resolution acknowledged that "Scripture commands individual Christians to love our enemies, but it also commands civil authorities to restrain evil and to punish evildoers through the power of the sword." The resolution urged prayer support for those who have lost loved ones in the war and those who are currently helping to rebuild Iraq.

In other action, messengers approved a Cooperative Program base budget of $40,427,480, with the State Board of Missions presenting the same budget as the previous year because gifts from Alabama Baptists for 2003 were projected to fall below expectations, according to SBOM Executive Director Rick Lance.

Joe Godfrey, pastor of First Baptist Church in Pleasant Grove, was re-elected president, as were Henry Cox, pastor of First Baptist Church in Bay Minette, first vice president, and Roger Willmore, pastor of First Baptist Church in Boaz, second vice president. All were unopposed.

The convention theme was "Healthy Leaders, Healthy Churches."

Among other resolutions adopted by the 1,093 messengers:

-- In a resolution supporting the Federal Marriage Amendment and citing the growing number of states beginning to legalize same-sex unions, messengers stated that God ordained marriage to be only between a man and a woman and it is a sin to engage in a homosexual relationship. Messengers called on Congress to pass and states and citizens of the United States to approve the Federal Marriage Amendment, and they called upon church leadership of every denomination to "use wisdom in the determination of marriage rights and selection of leadership to honor God's law on the sanctity of marriage and the sin of homosexuality."

The resolution, while citing the recent Lawrence v. Texas Supreme Court decision that struck down sodomy laws, denounced "all mistreatment of any human being due to his or her sexual behavior, sinful or otherwise." And it called upon Alabama Baptist ministers to "commit to perform only those marriages as defined by the Bible and for churches to elect only those leaders who are in or who support Bible-based relationships."

-- In a resolution on partial-birth abortion, messengers noted that it is a gruesome procedure that intentionally terminates the life of a mature baby that could live outside the mother's womb. They expressed thanksgiving and deep appreciation to the U.S. House and Senate for passing the partial-birth abortion ban and commended President Bush for his signature on the bill and his stance against abortion. Messengers resolved to pray for the families of those who have been affected by all acts of abortion.

-- A resolution expressing thanksgiving for the ministry and dedication of bivocational ministers noted that bivocational pastors serve in 51 percent of the approximately 3,200 Alabama Baptist churches, and the need for bivocational ministers is great in the state. Messengers encouraged pastors to preach specifically on "Calling Out the Called" and to provide increased opportunities for lay involvement in ministry within the churches.

-- A resolution on gambling warned that continued efforts are being made to legalize various forms of gambling in Alabama despite the state's founding fathers having placed a constitutional ban on a state lottery and similar games of chance. The resolution called gambling a regressive form of taxation and unstable source of revenue that is contrary to the purpose of state government and increases all forms of crime. Messengers reaffirmed the historic position of Alabama Baptists in opposition to any attempts to change the state's constitutional ban on a state operated lottery or casino gambling.

Next year's annual meeting will be Nov. 18-19 at the Montgomery Civic Center.

[Lady Eileen]

bump....thanks for the post.

[KC_for_Freedom]

Sounds like the Babtists have it figured out. Good for them. Shalom.

[Deep_6]

They have -got- to be kidding.

We have a Constitution that protects my right to live with a
conviction to God, to a particular religious belief, or with a
total absence of any belief in God.

Keep your beliefs out of my face and I'll keep my beliefs
out of yours. That, is freedom of religious expression.

 

[hedgetrimmer]

Freedom of religous expression is the ability for all to express their religious beliefs. When you tell someone they can't speak their religious beliefs you are violating the spirit of the Constitution.

Twenty or thirty years ago no one would have given a thought to anyone saying anything with respect to their religious beliefs. Anybody could put a soap box on the corner and preach, and no one cared, if they didn't want to listen they ignored.

Now someone has told the atheists and communists that having someone speak about God hurts them. So they sue, saying that their rights have been violated. What about the right of a person to speak freely about his religion? What has changed in our society that people cannot speak what they believe? You certainly have. Why would you stop someone else from doing so?

For you information, one impetus for article one of the Bill of Rights was the Quakers. They would go into towns and preach naked because they felt they were being called to do so. Some of the Governors in early America didn't like that and ran them out of town threatening to kill them if they came back. Well they came back and many were hanged for speaking their religious beliefs.

The first amendment was written to protect all views of christianity and religion, not to shut people up. If you are so offended by it you can punch the lights out of the guy who offends you, but he has a right to say what he wants when he wants (you may get put in jail for it though)

[ohioman]

You have always been a Commie, Atheist. Your remarks are certainly not a surprise. Why don't you go to Bama and physically try to shut the Baptists up. :)

[Deep_6]

Re:
"....Twenty or thirty years ago no one would have given a thought to
anyone saying anything with respect to their religious beliefs....."

Haven't been around that long? I have.

It's always been the same; people do not change much from one
century to the next.

The issue is Government support of a particular religion, not one's
right to preach in open public.

There is absolutely no breach of Constitutional rights in the disallowing
of usage of public funds [or property] for religious purposes. In fact,
that exact reasoning is the basis of the Constitutional requirement of
the separation of Church and State.

Please search for my name and previous posts regarding the Founding
Father's approach regarding this issue. It's been reposted so many times,
the entire matter has become redundancy to it's Nth.

Thanks.

 

[hedgetrimmer]

Please Sir,

There is _no_ Constitutional requirement of the separation of Church and State.

You are mistaken in that belief. The ACLU and others who claim this are actually quoting article 52 of the constitution of the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic. Here it is:

Article 52. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship or atheistic propaganda. Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited.

In the USSR, the church is separated from the state, and the school from the church.

The government is based on judeo-christian philosophy. The founders prayed fervently in public buildings, why we have a national day of prayer every year supported by Congress, and Washington wrote his famous Prayer of Thanksgiving to be read to Congress. Congress has a chaplain, the armed forces have chaplains-- there is nothing in the Consititution to prohibit that.

Again, in early America, people were killed for speaking of their religion. Article I of the Bill of Rights says congress shall make no law,--which includes making laws that prohibit freedom of speech about religion. If you look on some college campuses, they have set up free speech buildings, because you are not allowed free speech anywhere else on campus. I would think all of our government buildings are free speech buildings, because the government is supposed to protect our right to free speech, not deny it.

[Deep_6]

A. There is a Constitutional requirement of the separation
     of Church and State.

B. You are confusing "free speech" and the freedom of Religion,
     with Governmental sponsoring of religion.

C. This United States is in no way founded on "judeo-christian"
     philosophy; it was founded on the principle that all People's
     religious convictions, or their absence of religious conviction,
     are treated equally under law.

D. Washington's prayer was politically motivated during a time
     of intense conflict.

All of the above has been duly documented and posted on these
forums in the past weeks, by yours truly. They can be located
via the FR search engine.

Thanks.

 

[hedgetrimmer]

Where is the Constitutional requirement of the separation
of Church and State?

I showed you the USSR constitution. It is clearly there. But ours?

"Judeo christian law is the foundation for our laws.
When James Wilson was unanimously confirmed as George Washington's appointment to the Supreme Court, he said, "Christianity is part of the common-law."8 "Common-law" referred to the basis on which all other laws were built and reflected the posture of the Supreme Court for decades. In the case of Runkel v. Winemiller in 1796, just twenty years after the Declaration of Independence and nine years after adopting the Constitution, the supreme court of Maryland ruled, "By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing and are equally entitled to protection in their liberty."

The separation of church and state was so foreign to the roots of America that Congress even approved a special printing of the Bible for use in public schools. In 1781, a publisher petitioned Congress for permission to print Bibles. Congress not only approved his request but issued this statement in 1782: "The Congress of the United States approves and recommends to the people, the Holy Bible...for use in schools."12

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled, "Why not the Bible, and especially the New Testament, be read and taught as a divine revelation in the schools? Where can the purest principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as from the New Testament?"13

[hedgetrimmer]

"The Bible is the Book upon which this Republic rests."
- Andrew Jackson, Seventh President of the United States

The foundation of our society and our government rests so much on the teaching of the Bible that it would be difficult to support these foundations if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country.
---Calvin Coolidge

[hedgetrimmer]

Benjamin Franklin
Motion for Prayers in the Constitutional Convention, June 28, 1787


Mr. President,

The small Progress we have made, after 4 or 5 Weeks’ close Attendance and continual Reasonings with each other, our different Sentiments on almost every Question, several of the last producing as many Noes as Ayes, is, methinks, a melancholy Proof of the Imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our want of political Wisdom since we have been running all about in Search of it. We have gone back to ancient History for Models of Government, and examin’dthe different Forms of those Republics, which, have been originally form’d with the Seeds of their own Dissolution, now no longer exist; and we have view’d modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our Circumstances.

In this Situation of this Assembly, groping, as it were, in the dark to find Political Truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of Lights to illuminateour Understandings? In the Beginning of the Contest with Britain, when we were sensible of Danger, we had daily prayers in this Room for the Divine Protection. Our Prayers, Sir, were heard; -- and theywere graciously answered. All of us, who were engaged in the Strugglemust have observed frequent Instances of a superintending Providence in our Favour. To that kind Providence we owe this happy Opportunity of Consulting in Peace on the means of establishing our future national Felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? ordo we imagine we no longer need its assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time; and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see ofthis Truth, that GOD governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without His Notice, is it probable that anEmpire can rise without His Aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that "except the Lord build the House, they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe, that, without his concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political Building no better than the Builders of Babel; we shall be divided by our little, partial, local Interests, our Projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a Reproach and a Bye-word down to future Ages. And, what is worse, Mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate Instance, despair of establishing Government by human Wisdom, and leave it to Chance, War, and Conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move,

That henceforth Prayers, imploring the Assistance of Heaven and its Blessing on our Deliberations, he held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to Business; and that one or more of the Clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that Service.

[hedgetrimmer]

Why don't you post some links.

[Delta 21]

To uphold righteousness!

Punish evildoers through the power of the sword!

Go Team ! ! !

[Deep_6]

Re:
"...Why don't you post some links....."

Try searching for this topic and include my moniker. I have
posted a more than ample supply of URLs that clearly confirm
our forefather's demand to keep religious doctrine out of our
legislative processes.

Our founding fathers knew well, the hazards of religion interfering
government duties and vice-versa. Keeping the two apart does not
make one less religious, nor does it discourage or restrict the
practice of a religious belief. It instead provides the freedom for
all people to practice their respective religious beliefs without fear
of reprisal from any government entity.

[hedgetrimmer]

What you say has no basis in fact. I posted a proposal by Ben Franklin to hold prayers before each meeting of the Constitituional Convention, which was approved.

He would not be able to make that motion in Alabama Supreme court today.

The founding father stated many times, and I have posted some quotes, that without religion there is no morality and without morality there can be no good government.

Seaching on your moniker did not show up any of the links you are talking about so you are just going to have to help by posting them.

The example of Ben Franklin is exactly opposite your statement that the founders demanded to keep religious doctrine out of hte legislative process. He felt in order to succeed and produce the Constitution, that prayers to God should be at every meeting, and the rest of the members agreed.

The founding fathers were well aware of the persecution that could ocurr when people spoke freely about their religion, and they strove to prohibit that with the first amendment.

You still haven't shown where the Constitution says "separation of church and state".

[hedgetrimmer]

•"Forty-nine percent of administrators at private universities and 34 percent of administrators at public universities report that students at their institutions must undergo mandatory non-curricular programs [whose goal] 'is to lead them to value all sexual preferences and to recognize the relativity of these values compared to the values of their upbringing.' "


An example of the government restricting a persons first amendment right to their religious beliefs. Yes there are reprisals for student who don't allow themselves to be forced into this anti-religion belief system. No free speech or free thought on this public property!

[Deep_6]

Re:
"....What you say has no basis in fact. I posted a proposal by Ben Franklin
to hold prayers before each meeting of the Constitutional Convention, 
which was approved......."

 

Ok..... Here we go again. But I'll wager my retirement funds that
all I'll hear again, are the rants that the quotes are not valid; out
of context; abated in later speeches, etc etc etc..

I'll confine this post to Benjamin Franklin to ease the pain:

From here: http://www.politicalamazon.com/ff-quotes.html

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN:

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." --Benjamin Franklin, Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England." -- Benjamin Franklin

"When a religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are obliged to call for the help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin, Oct. 9, 1780.

"But think how great a proportion of mankind consists of weak and ignorant men and women, and of inexperienced and inconsiderate youth of both sexes, who have need of the motives of religion to restrain them from vice, to support their virtue, and to retain them in the practice of it until it becomes habitual..." -- Benjamin Franklin, Dec 13, 1757.

"As to Jesus of Nazareth...I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity." -- Benjamin Franklin

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The nearest I can make it out, 'Love your Enemies' means, 'Hate your Friends'." -- Benjamin Franklin

"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." -- Benjamin Franklin, letter to his father, 1738

"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." -- Benjamin Franklin from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", Nov. 20, 1728

There are many more Franklin quotes, but I  would hope this is enough
to prove the point?

[Southack]

We're standing tall and proud for our troops! We are also leading by example for the rest of the nation.