How to lose this war

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | November 4, 2003 | Joseph Farah

[Jacob Kell]

Do you want a surefire recipe to lose the Iraq war?

It's easy, really.

Just allow the Pentagon to move forward with plans to court martial Lt. Col. Allen B. West.

The day that happens is the day U.S. popular support for this war goes south. The day that happens is the day our fighting men realize this war – like Vietnam – is going to be micromanaged by the politicians in Washington who know little or nothing about the split-second judgments that need to be made when you're under fire. The day that happens is the day America loses some of its moral authority in conducting this foreign war and descends into the kind of schizophrenic self-consciousness that cost it clear-cut military and political victories in the past.

West is the U.S. Army officer – a 20-year veteran scheduled for retirement last weekend – who interrogated an Iraqi prisoner by firing a pistol into the air near his head, thus saving the lives of his own troops and discovering the details of an impending attack.

West isn't getting a medal for this conduct – which would be appropriate in my opinion. Instead, he was told to resign his commission prior to retirement and lose his retirement benefits or face a court martial.

West told the Washington Times in an e-mail he was desperate to gain information to protect his soldiers who face almost daily attacks in their effort to impose security in Tikrit, where Saddam Hussein loyalists are fighting back.

We saw the results of one of those attacks last weekend when a U.S. helicopter was shot down killing 16 troops headed for leave.

"I have never denied what happened and have always been brutally honest," West said. "I accept responsibility for the episode, but my intent was to scare this individual and keep my soldiers out of a potential ambush. There were no further attacks from that town. We further apprehended two other conspirators (a third fled town) and found out one of the conspirators was the father of a man we had detained for his Saddam Fedayeen affiliation."

West said the prisoner "and his accomplices were a threat to our soldiers and the method was not right, but why should I lose 20 years of service or be forced into prison for protecting my men?"

If prosecutors present enough evidence of wrongdoing at a hearing in Iraq next week, West could be court martialed and sentenced up to eight years in prison.

The staff judge advocate for the 4th Infantry Division has charged him under the Uniform Military Code with communicating a threat and aggravated assault. The Aug. 21 incident came amid fears of an impending sniper attack on U.S. forces and reports of an assassination plot aimed at West, an artillery battalion commander.

In a previous e-mail to the Times, West said while interrogating the Iraqi policeman he "fired into the weapons clearing barrel outside the facility alone, and the next time I did it while having his head close to the barrel. I stood in between the firing and his person. I admit that what I did was not right, but it was done with the concern of the safety of my soldiers and myself."

After informing his superior officer of the incident, West said he heard nothing more until a broader inquiry was launched by Army chiefs.

In other words, West's superiors in the field understood what he did and why. They understood the necessity of unconventional tactics in an unconventional war. But the politicians still don't get it.

You can change that by demanding the Pentagon drop this case against West.

They don't have to give him a medal, which he deserves. But they need to be forced to get off this good man's back.

[trebb]

Kill the enemy if you have to, but for Pete's sake, don't you dare try to scare him...

[Alberta's Child]

The staff judge advocate for the 4th Infantry Division has charged him under the Uniform Military Code with communicating a threat and aggravated assault.

A nation that charges soldiers with "communicating a threat" and "aggravated assault" can no longer even justify its own existence, let alone the war in question. I'm usually not the kind of person who likes to say "I told you so," but this is exactly the kind of sh!t I envisioned when I opposed this war in Iraq in the first place -- you simply don't send people into a combat situation and expect them to act like Girl Scouts selling cookies.

[Mark Felton]

agreed.

[biss5577]

I first heard about this on O'Reilly's show last night--I am appauled. This CANNOT happen to this soilder. It just cannot!

[Ispy4u]

There is a good discussion here Colonel in Iraq refuses to Resign regarding LTC West's actions.

I am of the opinion that he has to be punished, but I don't think he should lose his retirement or have a criminal record over this. His career is over even if all he recieves is a letter of repremand, and that's a shame because he obviously is a leader who cares for his soldiers deeply.

[armyboy]

It's sad when a small group of REMF's with high rank think that they know how to run every aspect of this war, even though they aren't in the thick of it and see what goes on every day.

[struwwelpeter]

It's probably too late already. The rumor-mill in Iraq is probably running overtime on this one, with all sorts of interesting verisons. The reprecussions will be devastating - expect less initiative and more CYA.

Remember the JAG officer who nixed the Osama Predator shot? Time to purge these Clinton-era holdovers before they get more good men killed.

[Ispy4u]

He isn't expected to act like a girl scout, he is required to act like a US Soldier. We do not extract information from EPW's or detainees in this manner. Even when it saves lives, the long term effects of us allowing soldiers to act in this manner will cost us far more in the future.

[Ispy4u]

You would be smart to remember your training on the Law of War.

Your actions in this manner could cause some of your buddies, if captured, to be tortured and executed.

I'm no REMF either, SSG US Army.

[1st-P-In-The-Pod]

"Just allow the Pentagon to move forward with plans to court martial Lt. Col. Allen B. West."

My family discussed this last week and came to the same conclusion. We expect our government to protect these brave men and women with everything and anything available. That includes recognizing the right of every soldier to protect his life and the lives of his comrades, using whatever methods necessary. This pc witch hunt is cr*p, and makes us look like fools.

I believe President Bush has far more sense than to sell our soldiers cheaply. What's wrong with the people at the Pentagon, and how can this be stopped?

[Alberta's Child]

He isn't expected to act like a girl scout, he is required to act like a US Soldier. We do not extract information from EPW's or detainees in this manner.

This was one of the major reasons why I said the U.S. should never get involved in Iraq in the first place -- because a nation that plays by a set of rules will never win a guerrilla war against an opponent that doesn't.

I am quite certain of one thing: If this guy had used this method to uncover advance information about the attack the hotel where Paul Wolfowitz was staying last week, then he would have been promoted and we wouldn't even be reading this story.

[Steely Glint]

The US Army's motto: warriors not wanted here.

He should have shot the jerk in the knee and then started asking questions. Why waste a round? Bullets cost money.

[Steely Glint]

"You would be smart to remember your training on the Law of War. Your actions in this manner could cause some of your buddies, if captured, to be tortured and executed."

My buddies, when captured, WERE tortured and executed. We were ambushed and fired at by people who then dropped their weapons and blended in with the civilian population. Regardless, I fought fairly and atrocity-free and followed the Laws of War. In middle age, I look back and wish that I had not done so...I wish that I had taken it to them instead.

The scum we are fighting today also routinely torture and execute their captives. They have never even heard of the Laws of War; heck, the scum blew up a Red Cross unit with a bomb placed in an ambulance the other day.

IMO we should throw the Laws of War in the trash bin and hurt them as badly as we can. Otherwise we end up in the realm of

http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2003_09_01_belmontclub_archive.html#106401071003484059

[Ispy4u]

I'm willing to bet you a large sum of money, shall we make it $50,000 that we will win this war, with a set of rules, and those rules will be followed to the letter.

You say we will "never win" I say put your money where your mouth is.

I have to disagree with you about your second paragraph too. These tactics will never be endorsed by our nation for any purpose.

What wins in guerrilla war is choking off the means for the enemy to resist.
1. Arms and supplies
2. Places of refuge
3. Replacements/recruits
4. Leadership

Once these things are degraded to an unsustainable level the guerrillas will collapse. We are slowly (because to do it fast costs innocent civilian lives)choking these four points simultaneously.

We will win. And I dare you to take the bet. If it's too much name your price.

[Ispy4u]

And had you "taken it to them" what would you have accomplished. If you are speaking of experience in Viet Nam, no action soldiers took there could change the outcome, that war was a political failure.

I imagine what you wish is merely an emotional response. It completely overlooks the implications those actions could have to generations of soldiers following you. Atrocities steel the resolve of our enemies, give them an excuse to lay before the world stage for their atrocities, and make it nearly impossible for us to prosecute war criminals if we advocate their tactics (which is what LTC West used).

[armyboy]

The Iraqis don't know the 1st thing about the "Laws of War" they already torture and kill POW's the blew up a Red Cross center. so I say get info that save our soldiers lives by ANY means nessessary.

[Alberta's Child]

I would certainly be willing to bet, but I have a couple of major issues that have to be addressed before we agree on these terms:

1. I already have an open bet for $50,000 with someone else. Before the war began, I bet him that there would be no "weapons of mass destruction" found in Iraq. I'm having a hard time collecting on this one -- every time I bring up the issue, he simply points out that "just because we haven't found them yet, it doesn't mean they won't be found." I'm starting to get the sense that he's not going to pay me, don't you?

2. The second problem is that neither you nor I will ever be able to know what the term "We will win!" means. I know this to be true because nobody in the U.S. government appears to know what the term "victory" means with regard to Iraq. No conditions were set at the start of the war (Reason #3 for my opposition to the war), and this administration has already had a silly "victory party" on a U.S. aircraft carrier even though the war is far from over.

So I don't think I can take this bet at this point. I don't have $50,000 at my disposal (due to my inability to collect on a previous bet), and even if I did have this money I wouldn't be willing to bet on something as ill-defined as a "victory" in this war. It's sort of like placing a pre-season bet on a Super Bowl winner. If you pick one team to go all the way, and someone else picks an "other" team without telling you who they selected, I'm guessing you aren't even putting a nickel down on that one.

Keep in mind, too, that I am not saying the U.S. is going to "lose" this war -- we simply aren't going to "win" it.

The United States does not lose wars -- we simply lose interest.

[iBillDavis]

this war was lost the day the iraqi army disappeared...urban warfare is the same as guerilla warfare, unwinable as in nam...

[Ispy4u]

Your points are valid, I will have to think hard about what I mean when I say "we will win"

I believe that will be when there is a stable democracy in Iraq, with normal diplomatic relations between us and them. Although that in itself is somewhat vague.

I am comfortable betting a large amount, although bets based on vague terms are not really bets. So I have to agree with you.

I did leave off one point in my previous post.

4. We have to defeat the propaganda machine within our own borders.

Reason 4 is why America doesn't lose wars, they just lose interest. I thank you for making that clear.