Right to die sounds nice unless it's your turn (Kathleen Parker )

Jewish World Review ^ | Oct. 24, 2003/ 28 Tishrei, 5764 | Kathleen Parker

[nickcarraway]

The Florida case of Terri Schiavo, 13 years in a "vegetative" (but wakeful) state and the subject of warring factions concerning her fate, is a nightmare in anyone's wolf-stalked night. Simply distilled: Her parents want to her alive; her husband wants her dead.

Terri collapsed in 1990 from unknown causes and became severely cognitively disabled. Husband Michael has been trying for years to remove his wife's feeding tube to let her die, as he claims she would wish. Her parents have fought to keep her alive.

[nickcarraway]

ping

[T'wit]

Pretty good piece, but the writer doesn't seem to know about evidence suggesting that Terri may have originally been the victim of spousal abuse. Neither is she informed of the abuse and neglect Terri has suffered for years on her husband's orders.

This is no ordinary "right to die" decision. Let's not forget that Terri wasn't dying before her husband tried -- again -- to snuff her.

[ladyinred]

"It is said to be reasonably painless, although it may involve discomfort from thirst and hunger.

Oh well then....!

[Cindy]

ORTHODOXY TODAY.org: "THE MARTYRDOM OF TERRI SCHIAVO" -Commentary by Fr. Johannes L. Jacobse (October 25, 2003) (Read More...)

"TERRI'S FIGHT" (Click Here Now.)

[beaversmom]

All this talk about pulling the plug always makes me think of the George Carlin skit. If I make up a living will I think I'll include his words in it--maybe cleaned up a little bit though:

And don't be pulling any plugs on me either. Here's another bunch of macho a**hole bulls*** floating around this country. People talking about, "Aw pull the plug on me. If I'm ever like that. If I'm cromatosed. If I'm like a vegetable. Pull the plug on me." F*** you, leave my plug alone. Get an extension cord for my plug. I want everything you got, tubes, cords, plugs, probes, electrodes, IVs. You got something (click), stick it in me man. You find out I got a hole I didn't know I had, put a f***in plug in it. Vegetable sh*t, I don't care if I look like an artichoke. Ssaaaaave my a**.

[NYer]

EXCELLENT analysis! (Is Jewish World Review banned from full reprint here at FR?)

" Trying to find a guilt-free way to delete people no longer fit for living according to our definition of "quality." In the absence of a living will, as is the case with Schiavo, do we really want to become the arbiters of when another's life is worth living? Stephen Hawking, I'm guessing again, would vote "no."

When there is doubt, as surely there is here, life should trump death. Otherwise, without much troubling, the right to die becomes the duty to die and, who knows, your turn may be next. Meanwhile, we'll all breathe easier, including Terri Schiavo."

TERRI SCHIAVO PING! – let me know if you want on/off this ping list

[NYer]

Cindy ... has that article been posted to FR yet? If not it deserves .... no ... it demands to be posted! Please let me know!

[NYer]

"Vegetable sh*t, I don't care if I look like an artichoke. Ssaaaaave my a**."

ROFL!! Thanks, I needed that.

[NYer]

*Great analogy: compare someone who can't communicate - in any fashion - with someone doing defining work in cosmology.*

Stephen Hawking relies on an aide to 'interpret' his grunts. His body is paralyzed, except for 3 fingers. Judging from his physical state, I don't imagine he is still dining on porterhouse steak.

The point the author is trying to make is quite simple. Who should decide which life is worth living. Stephen Hawking can neither write nor dictate a "living will". Death by Starvation and Dehydration would take him fairly quickly.

[WOSG]

Right!

Steven Hawking is more dependent on others than even the most severely of handicapped. He is a brilliant mind trapped in a decayed body.

These pro-death ethicists would take him out if their logic were extended.

[Cdnexpat]

This is a divisive situation, one in which people who really have no business being involved, involve themselves. I think it is fair to say that the immediate family, father, mother, and husband have large stakes in the outcome, many others, both for and against the removal of the feeding tube do not.
I believe that most people see the potential for a point in their lives where life would not be worth living. If one were seriously injured but knew that after a long painful period of medical rehabilitation one would live a long fruitful life most would choose to have doctors preform any medical procedure to save their lives. As the quality and quanity of a persons remaining life falls off the number of people who want to have invasive medical procedures preformed on them falls.
It is possible that Mrs Schiavo's husband is respecting her wishes and doing what she would wish. It is also possible that she did not discuss these matters with her parents and they are acting in her best interests (I am trying to start from a position where everyones motives are pure). If this is true it places all those involved in a horrible position because we (our politicians) are unwilling to take a position on the subject of euthanasia.
Feeding tube removal is a terrible way to die, I suspect there are few ways that are worse. If we are going to be envolved in euthanasia then we have an obligation to make it painless and dignified. If we aren't, then we should be prepared as a society to shoulder the costs associated with people in Mrs. Schiavo's condiction, for they far exceed the means of the ordinary person.
A better way is too allow a person to choose before hand at what point they wish to die. Those who were still able to communicate would of course be able to change their minds, those who could not would live or die based on their earilier decision.
These are my views. I personally would not wish to live in Mrs Schiavo's condiction, what I would view as a shadow of my former self. I don't think that others should have a right to force me to because it fits their views of right and wrong. The problem for me personally is the manner in which Mrs Schiavo will have her life ended. It is a sad state of affairs when a person who has done no wrong is starved to death and murderer gets a painless lethal injection. Until we are willing to discuss these issues rationally and decide where we stand as a society we will be doomed to have families torn apart in a time when they really need to be together the most.

[WOSG]

"His grunts can be _interpreted_ to mean something."

Some testimony wrt Terri suggests the same is possible for her too, with therapy and aids that her husbands chooses not to extend to her.

It is arrogant to assume it's impossible.

"There is a _huge_ difference here and for anyone to compare Terri to Hawking is shameless. "

Not. It's quite appropriate. There are judgements made about dependency and 'quality of life' here that are directly comparable.

" Most of us equate our "selves" with what happens in our brain, not our arms and legs."

That depends. 'where's the rest of me?'

[WOSG]

It is only made divisive by those wanting to kill a woman against her parent's wishes.


"I believe that most people see the potential for a point in their lives where life would not be worth living. "
I would never kill myself, no matter what. That is simply wrong.

[Cdnexpat]

That is where we disagree, I believe that their is a point where you don't really have a life anymore. I have a question. Jehovahs Witnesses do not believe in blood transfusions, even if they will save their lives, would you consider the refusal of a lifesaving blood transfusion to be sucide? If so would you support forcing them to take a blood transfusion?

[Lion in Winter]

Yes, that article needs to be posted. It is excellent. I liked the site too. I looked around the site for awhile. Good things to read and I found myself in agreement with many of the sites numerous topics.

[isrul]

"Can she, in any manner whatsoever, demonstrate conscious activity of any kind? Hawking is in a position to comment - albeit indirectly - on the quality of his life."

She hasn't been given the opprotunity. The judge forbade the use of any "artificial" communication device.

Without out his device, Dr. Hawking could not demonstrate conscious activity any more than Terri.

His movements and sounds could be described as involuntary