To Restore Religious Freedoms.

Thomas Legislative Information on the Internet ^ | 8/21/03 | Wayne Allard(R-CO)

[ForGod'sSake]

S 1558 IS

108th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 1558

To restore religious freedoms.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

August 1 (legislative day, JULY 21), 2003

Mr. ALLARD introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

---

A BILL

To restore religious freedoms.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Religious Liberties Restoration Act'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

Congress finds the following:

(1) The Declaration of Independence declares that governments are instituted to secure certain unalienable rights, including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, with which all human beings are endowed by their Creator and to which they are entitled by the laws of nature and of nature's God.

(2) The organic laws of the United States Code and the constitutions of every State, using various expressions, recognize God as the source of the blessings of liberty.

(3) The first amendment to the Constitution secures rights against laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof made by the Federal Government.

(4) The rights secured under the first amendment have been interpreted by the Federal courts to be included among the provisions of the 14th amendment.

(5) The 10th amendment reserves to the States, respectively, the powers not delegated to the Federal Government nor prohibited to the States.

(6) Disputes and doubts have arisen with respect to public displays of the Ten Commandments and to other public expression of religious faith.

(7) Section 5 of the 14th amendment grants Congress the power to enforce the provisions of the 14th amendment.

(8) Article III, section 2 of the Constitution grants Congress the authority to except certain matters from the jurisdiction of the Federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court.

SEC. 3. RELIGIOUS LIBERTY RIGHTS DECLARED.

(a) DISPLAY OF TEN COMMANDMENTS- The power to display the Ten Commandments on or within property owned or administered by the several States or political subdivisions of such States is among the powers reserved to the States, respectively.

(b) WORD `GOD' IN PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE- The power to recite the Pledge of Allegiance on or within property owned or administered by the several States or political subdivisions of such States is among the powers reserved to the States, respectively. The Pledge of Allegiance shall be, `I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and justice for all.'.

(c) MOTTO `IN GOD WE TRUST'- The power to recite the national motto on or within property owned or administered by the several States or political subdivisions of such States is among the powers reserved to the States, respectively. The national motto shall be, `In God we trust'.

(d) EXERCISE OF CONGRESSIONAL POWER TO EXCEPT- The subject matter of subsections (a), (b), and (c) are excepted from the jurisdiction of Federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court.

END

The bill has a total of 10 cosponsors; they are:

Sen Brownback, Sam - 9/23/2003 [KS]	Sen Bunning, Jim - 10/20/2003 [KY]
Sen Burns, Conrad R. - 9/29/2003 [MT]	Sen Cochran, Thad - 9/30/2003 [MS]
Sen Craig, Larry E. - 10/21/2003 [ID]	Sen Enzi, Michael B. - 10/2/2003 [WY]
Sen Graham, Lindsey O. - 9/26/2003 [SC]	Sen Inhofe, Jim - 9/30/2003 [OK]
Sen Lott, Trent - 9/30/2003 [MS]	Sen Shelby, Richard C. - 9/25/2003 [AL]

[exmarine]

Sigh... nobody prays to Mary. Asking Mary to intercede on your behalf is not praying to Mary.

It's not? What is it then? It's also using Mary as a mediator between yourself and Christ, and Hebrews explicitly states there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ. Another passage says to "come boldly before the throne of grace and make your requests known to God" (known to whom - God, not Mary). Mary didn't die for anyone and she can't intercede to God for anyone. Only Christ can do that.

[mcg1969]

Whenever a word appears in sentence it was selected because has one meaning.

I meant to say here "Whenver a word appears in a sentence it was selected for one of its meanings."

[Modernman]

It's my example, leave it alone

The example is based on a faulty premise. You're saying you consider praying to Mary to be a sin, which is all well and good. However, since nobody actually prays to Mary, your point is meaningless.

it's communicating with the bodily dead which is a scriptural no no and has been since long before Christ. It's sin.

That's one opinion- about 1.2 billion people disagree with you.

[Modernman]

It's not? What is it then?

It's no different than asking a saint to intercede on your behalf, which has been going on for about 1700 years. Nothing special here. Asking Mary to intercede on your behalf is not much different than asking other Christians to pray for you.

Mary didn't die for anyone and she can't intercede to God for anyone. Only Christ can do that.

Mary is beloved of God because she bore His one son. She was not just a vessel, to be used and then discarded. He chose her as the mother of His son. Isn't it therefore logical to conlude that she is important to God?

[Modernman]

Thus there must be a non subjective basis for morality. Personal opinion is subjective and a moving target.

The problem here is that morality is a personal decision. Society should not attempt to coerce virtue- forced virtue is not virtue at all.

[exmarine]

Argue with scripture. It's in black and white. Scripture is right and you are wrong. There is one mediator between God and man, and believers go boldly to the throne of Grace. Biblical authority is SUPREME.

[exmarine]

Mary is beloved of God because she bore His one son. She was not just a vessel, to be used and then discarded. He chose her as the mother of His son. Isn't it therefore logical to conlude that she is important to God?

Give me the scriptures that say we should ask Mary for help.

[exmarine]

It's no different than asking a saint to intercede on your behalf, which has been going on for about 1700 years. Nothing special here. Asking Mary to intercede on your behalf is not much different than asking other Christians to pray for you.

Jesus ridiculed the traditions of men. Praying to Mary or to the dead goes directly against scripture as I already pointed out to you. Any tradition that is contrary to scripture is false.

[exmarine]

1 Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Heb. 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Until you deal with these scriptures and somehow reconcile your beliefs with these (which you can't), you don't have a leg to stand on.

[Modernman]

Praying to Mary or to the dead goes directly against scripture as I already pointed out to you

And as I pointed out to you, nobody "prays" to Mary. Asking for her interecession is not prayer, under any definition.

[Modernman]

Give me the scriptures that say we should ask Mary for help.

Why do you need scriptures to tell you that asking other Christians to pray for you is a good thing? Praying is not a solitary thing- it is something that makes us part of a greater Christian community. By praying with Mary and asking her to intercede on our behalf, you don't really do anything different than when a congregation prays on behalf of a sick person, for example.

[exmarine]

And as I pointed out to you, nobody "prays" to Mary. Asking for her interecession is not prayer, under any definition.

This is a no spin zone. :) Besides, prayer or not, you are still using Mary as a mediator - read the scriptures again!

[Modernman]

Until you deal with these scriptures and somehow reconcile your beliefs with these (which you can't), you don't have a leg to stand on.

These scriptures you quoted are meaningless to this debate. They do not prevent any Christian from praying with other Christians or asking other Christians to pray for them.

This fear of Mary on the part of you proddies comes off as somewhat misogynistic, IMHO.

[exmarine]

Why do you need scriptures to tell you that asking other Christians to pray for you is a good thing? Praying is not a solitary thing- it is something that makes us part of a greater Christian community. By praying with Mary and asking her to intercede on our behalf, you don't really do anything different than when a congregation prays on behalf of a sick person, for example.

Mary can't hear you because Mary is not OMnisicient (that quality applies to God only) and that is what is required to hear the billions of prayers all at once.

And I say again, you are using a mediator and that goes against scripture! Deal with that. The bible says that Christ is the ONLY mediator. Get that thru your head. It also says to come boldly to the throne of God not boldly to Mary.

[exmarine]

These scriptures you quoted are meaningless to this debate. They do not prevent any Christian from praying with other Christians or asking other Christians to pray for them.

False. You are using a mediator other than Christ. Deal with it. Mary is not omniscient.

[antiRepublicrat]

Because God endowed all men with a conscience, even those that don't believe in Him.

I know what you mean, but please know that means nothing to me. Some African can say the great god Zumbubu endowed me with the ability to walk backwards, and I will give their claims as much credence as yours: none.

[Havoc]

That's one opinion

It isn't an opinion. It's scripture. If it were an opinion, i'd offer it as such. It isn't. But, then this is what I'm talking about isn't it lol.

[Modernman]

And I say again, you are using a mediator and that goes against scripture!

If that's your take on it, fine. If your particular reading of the Bible, which is probably endorsed by a few million people, calls this mediation, who am I to argue? God bless you, and I hope you find salvation. God will decide which one of us is correct. I'm happy to stick with an interpretation of scripture shared by the majority of the world's Christians for the last 1700 or so years.

[antiRepublicrat]

But lets say it is supressed, what then is the compass upon which they rely for guidance - it is what they feel from moment to moment or what they can logically reason out.

As the Dalai Lama would say, it is that which results in the greatest amount of happiness.

If today we say it's ok only to sleep with someone before marriage, tomorrow they want to sleep with 12 girls or guys in public. The next day they're beeting down your door wanting to sleep with your wife.. We've seen this progression in society already.

That's the difference between an atheist who is a conservative (me) and one who is a liberal. Christians have this liberal to conservative spread too. And just like with you, we keep wishing the liberals would take a long walk off a short pier.

[Modernman]

False. You are using a mediator other than Christ.

So you say. That's what I love about proddies- every one of them is a theologian with a special insight into scripture.