10/18/03 -- Jeb's Emails to FR poster, summer, today, re: Terri. (And, a Message to Michael Shiavo)

10/18/03 | summer's emails with Gov Bush

[summer]

Note to FR: I am posting here an email conversation I had today with Gov Bush about Terri, and yes, he knows I am posting it here on FR.

In my reply #1, located below this post of Gov Bush’s email, I have posted a message from me to Terri’s husband. And, no, I did not discuss with anyone my idea here to write to Terri’s husband. No one suggested it to me. Nor did I discuss it with anyone at all.

In my next reply, reply #2 below, I hope to post a message to my friends here on FR. And, while I would like to respond to each reply that may be posted on this thread, I can not. Due to a pressing personal matter, I will not be able to respond tonight.

However, my thoughts and prayers and hopes remain with each person involved in this matter.

God bless.

summer

-------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: [summer]
To: Jeb Bush
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: …question for you…

Gov Bush,

Thank you, and I have no doubt you would move Heaven and Earth for her if you could.

Sincerely, [summer]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:42 PM
Subject: …question for you…

I cannot offer much hope. I am sickened by this situtation and pray for her family. We have looked at every angle, every legal possibility and will continue to do so. It is clear that we need to make living wills the norm for families in our state. Too few people use them.

Jeb

-----Original Message-----
From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:38 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: Re: …question for you…

Thank you for your response, Gov Bush. Before I post this, can you provide any measure of hope for a legal way to preserve this woman's life? To think that all her parents want to do is care for her and not see her starve to death, is, I think, not asking for a lot in this world. My own parents would feel the same way about me, I am sure[…]

[summer]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:07 PM
Subject: …question for you…

this was tried in the courts I believe and was rejected.

jeb

-----Original Message-----

From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:03 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: …question for you…

Is there a way you can utilize Family Law as it pertains to abandonment of a spouse -- on the grounds of lack of sexual contact -- so that the path can be cleared for him to be legally removed by the state or her family as a husband?

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeb Bush
Sent: Oct 18, 2003 1:47 PM
To: [summer]
Subject: …question for you…

Unfortunately, I cannot issue an executive order when there is a court order upheld at every level in the judiciary. Mr. Shiavo is the legal guardian and I can't override that fact. I wish I could but I have no legal authority to do so.

Jeb

-----Original Message-----
From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 11:02 AM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: …question for you…

Can you use your authority to issue an Executive Order, to place her in a different hospice that has no connection to her husband, as a temporary stop measure to [get] this woman back on feeding -- so that you have the time necessary to review whatever other options may exist for you? This current situation with her removed from the tubes will result in an irrevocable situation.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Thank you.

[summer]

Re your post #218 - RC, Thank you so much for posting here, and for your kind words to me. Yes, please share the letter I wrote to Michael, and if you can email it to his lawyer with a polite note, I would appreciate it.

Here is the latest reporting on the legal twists in this matter from today's Sunday NYT:

-------------------------------------------------

NYTimes.com > National

Courts Reject Effort to Keep Comatose Woman Alive

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: October 19, 2003

PINELLAS PARK, Fla., Oct. 18 — Two state courts denied efforts by the parents of a disabled woman to reinsert a feeding tube that was keeping her alive.

The fate of the woman, Terri Schiavo, has been a long-running legal battle between her husband, Michael Schiavo, who successfully fought to have the feeding tube removed this week, and her parents, who have fought for years to keep her alive.

Without the feeding tube, doctors say Terri Schiavo will die within days or weeks.

In the latest legal tactic, Ms. Schiavo's parents sought to compel Gov. Jeb Bush to order an investigation into their contention that Michael Schiavo abused her. They say they want the tube reinserted so law enforcement can investigate.

Michael Schiavo has adamantly denied mistreating his wife, and state police and prosecutors have declined to investigate.

A Tallahassee judge rejected the parents' request on Friday, saying it should have been filed in Pinellas County, where the case originated. The First District Court of Appeal in Tallahassee then denied the request without comment.

Lawyers for the Schindlers were planning the next step, said Randall Terry, an advocate who has taken up their cause. He said it was unlikely they could win in Pinellas County, where a judge earlier ruled that Michael Schiavo had the legal right to have the feeding tube removed.

Through several years of legal battles, Bob and Mary Schindler have maintained hope that their daughter, who has been in a vegetative state since her heart briefly stopped in 1990, might one day be able to talk.

Doctors have testified that Ms. Schiavo suffered a heart attack because of a potassium deficiency, but the Schindlers have theorized that Michael Schiavo tried to strangle her.

Michael Schiavo has said his wife would not have wanted to be kept alive artificially.

Governor Bush has been sympathetic to the Schindlers' efforts but said he had found no legal means to override the courts.

Pat Anderson, the Schindlers' lawyer, said she was not surprised by the judge's swift denial. The legal battle between the Schindlers and their son-in-law has passed through the hands of 19 judges and 6 courts.

"There has been an awful lot of judicial attention to this case," Ms. Anderson said. "Judges don't like to second-guess each other."

George Felos, the lawyer for Michael Schiavo, said it was preposterous to think that any judge or court would issue an order requiring the governor to intervene. "Apparently the judges felt the same," Mr. Felos said.

[summer]

Thank you for your posts on this thread; please bump it again if you have a moment.

I have not yet had a chance to read and respond to every post to me, but I will try to do so soon.

[windchime]

PREFACE:

This entire situation sickens me!  As a parent, the loss of a child is the intolerable event.  The case of Terri Schindler-Schiavo and the plight of the Schindler family has elicited emotions across the spectrum.  Ultimately, deep sorrow for what is happening to Terri prevails and I still hope for a miracle to save her.

Comments on this forum regarding Terri's case have evolved from prayerful, helpful, sincere, informative research to emotional, hostile encounters spewing venom and blame to promote an agenda.  Some posters arrived at FreeRepublic with an agenda that dominates any of the Terri threads upon which they post....others seem to have acquired an agenda.  

But for responding to pings, I have curtailed my reading and posting on these threads.  I want my thoughts about Terri to remain hopeful that some positive purpose will come of her suffering.  Dealing a blow to the 'culture of death'  through revisions in our laws might be a good start.

Prayers for Terri and her family.

The Blame Game

in the Terri Schindler-Schiavo Case

 1.   Terri Schindler made an abysmal choice in the man she married.

 2.   Terri Schindler did not indicate her choice of care or caregiver in writing.

 3    Terri Schindler did not leave Michael Schiavo  while she had the chance.

 4.   Michael Schiavo appears from today's perspective to have had ill intent from the beginning of the event causing Terri's current condition.

 5.   Mr. and Mrs. Schindler granted guardianship to Michael Schiavo.

 6.  After repeated defeat in court in an effort to secure rehabilitation for Terri,  the Schindlers continued to trust the judicial system and did not physically remove their daughter and spirit her to a secure location where they could institute the proper care.

 7.  The citizens of Florida did not demand changes in the law that thwarted efforts of the Schindlers to improve their daughter's condition.

 8.   Poor representation by attorneys and the liberal courts resulted in repeated blows to the case of Terri's blood family in their fight to preserve Terri's life.

 9.   Motivated and cunning representation (Felos) was secured by Michael Schiavo.

10.   A liberal judge (Greer) is/was sympathetic to the Felos/Schiavo argument.  (reasons unknown)

11.   Florida Supreme Court is/was sympathetic to the Felos/Schiavo argument.  (reasons unknown)

12.  Liberal federal judge (Lazarra) is/was sympathetic to the Felos/Schiavo argument.  (reasons unknown)

13.  Terri Schindler-Schiavo is scheduled to be dehydrated/starved until she dies by the order of Judge Greer on Wednesday, October 15, 2003.

So, who is at fault?.....Who deserves the blame?

Why, the Governor of the State of Florida, the President of the United States and the Catholic church, of course!

(As far as I know, neither the governor nor the president  sired, gave birth to or appointed individuals involved in the Terri Schindler-Schiavo case.)

[inquest]

"In the latest legal tactic, Ms. Schiavo's parents sought to..."

[fists clenching] Must the AP be so blatantly and unprofessionally biased? Unbelievable.

[candeee]

Do you honestly believe that your email was personally responded to by Bush? Isn't more likely that someone in his office wrote the emails? Have you looked at the suggested legal procedures for Jeb to take and deemed them yourself not available or are you taking word of the author of the emails?

[Avoiding_Sulla]

The judiciary in this country is supreme - no executive and no legislature could do a thing to stop this.

Your statement is flat out wrong.

• Checks and balances apply to ALL branches of government.
• The judicial branch is the most autocratic branch because they were always the most remote branch.
• However, the judiciary once restrained themselves for fear of having their independence breached, and would even say so repeatedly.
• They state that fear less often now -- certainly becoming bold beyond decency because they see what you stated is true in practice. Elected politicians fail to do their end of the balancing!
• It is long passed time to balance out such imperious judiciary with prejudice.
• A valient executive, appealing to the heart of the great people of the United States, can claim he is right in not going along with the law as these BLACK robes interpret because, when the law is in violation of common human decency, it is wrong and needs to be defied.

That last was the lesson of Nuremburg. Everybody from death camp guards to political leaders were held accountable. No less here should be lawyers and judges and governors and presidents.

Give us a workable answer Quinn.

-Avoiding Sulla
(NO! It takes far more than bold, popular leadership to create a dictator. It first takes a republic to have cut itself off from the decency, the moral underpinning, of its past. Keep Gdd in the discussion -- keep God in the equation -- and you keep the republic.)

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I just keep thinking the fix is in. None of this makes any sense to me. I just do not undertand why JEb has let us down like this. What is the purpose of having a conservative in office if he isn't going to listen to conservatives.

[inquest]

Would it be possible for the governor to call a special session of the legislature, with an eye towards getting them to change the law?

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

You got it Teddy. I do not understand this case. And the inflammatory rhetoric that you and your cohorts are disseminating on these threads does not make it any easy to understand. Hospices are death factories? Governors commited to life are murderers? Courts and the Vatican are, because they do not side with your cause, complicit?

C'mon. If things are TRULY that bad as your rhetoric indicates, get in your car, drive down to the death factory with pitch forks and shotguns and demand her release from the murderers. I mean after all we are commanded to obey God rather than men. But you won't do it, will you?

Tone down the rhetoric. Post some articles that present this case in a sober manner. And quit pointing an accusatory finger at me, Teddy. Your vitriol is not winning you any converts from the unconverted. Those who may be sympathetic are getting turned off to your message.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Thank you, summer.

I hope that Ms. Anderson, the Schindlers' lawyer had more to say than excusing the attorneys/judges who turned down the latest attempts by Terri's parents to save Terri's life.

I will gladly e-mail your letter to Michael's attorney, Hope Hospice +...

ProofG@aol.com ~ George Felos

ggreer@co.pinellas.fl.us ~ Judge George Greer

lendmar@gte.net ~ Judge John Lenderman.

ddemers@co.pinellas.fl.us ~ Judge David Demers, 6th Judicial Court

ag@oag.state.fl.us

 

supremecourt@flcourts.org

            Craig Waters for the Supreme Court, (850) 414-7641, watersc@flcourts.org

Brenda Johnson, for the Office of the State Courts Administrator, (850) 922-5081, johnsonb@flcourts.org 

 

 jeb.bush@myflorida.com

 

Executive Office of Governor, Legal Team to Jeb:

Robert H. Fernandez (Deputy General Counsel to Governor) -> fernanr@eog.state.fl.us
Raquel A. Rodriguez (General Counsel to Governor) -> raquel.rodriguez@myflorida.com
Christa Calamas (Assistant General Counsel to Governor) -> calamac@eog.state.fl.us

strzalkar@flcourts.org ~ Florida Second District Court of Appeal

 

 AskDOJ@usdoj.gov

 

Hospice contact info.

 

editor.letters@heraldtribune.com (sarasota herald tribune)
dklement@bradentonherald.com (bradenton herald)

letters@sptimes.com (st. pete times)
tribletters@tampatrib.com (tampa tribune)

 

Roman Catholic Bishops of Florida:

 

Archbishop John C. Favalora - no email address available
Bishop John H. Ricard, SSJ - no email address available
Bishop Gerald M. Barbarito, JCL - email : c/o dlucia@dioogdensburg.org
Bishop John J. Nevins - email : c/o feliz@dioceseofvenice.org
Bishop Victor Galeone - no email address available
Bishop Norbert M. Dorsey, CP - email : info@diocese.org
Bishop Robert N. Lynch - email : comdosp@aol.com
Bishop Thomas G. Wenski - no email address available

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Quinn, this is 8th grade civics. You've got it wrong. The judiciary is not supreme in this country. All three branches of government are co-equal. They were so designed specifically to keep one branch of the government from abusing its powers and becoming dictatorial. This case is a perfect test of that system, the problem is the legislature and executives do not wish to utilize the system as it was intended.

They are cowards. There are laws on the books right now which they could use to intervene and save Terri. Our very right to life is enshrined in the federal and Florida state constitutions. Florida has laws against abuse of the disabled and denial of civil and human rights.

This situation could be changed in an instant, right now. Instead, cowards have inexplicably surrendered without a fight.

Look for unpleasant details below the surface of Terri's situation.

[Qwinn]

"Give us a workable answer Quinn."

The only check and balance I know of provided for in the Constitution is that the Legislature could convene and impeach Greer. The executive branch's control of the courts is limited to making appointments, which doesn't help in this case (although it helps in preventing people like Greer from getting appointed in the future).

Qwinn

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

On these threads, I am reading of accusations that a governor knows that a murder is taking place and is doing nothing to stop it, though he has the power to do so. Hospices are equated to death camps? Executions are occuring?

This kind of rhetoric is toxic to the debate because no one is in favor or murder or death camps. However, I have not be shown the case for either one. I have not been shown a case for Jeb's legal intervention. And do not post copies of the Florida statues. That is not legal analysis. It's mere recitiation. It proves nothing.

Furthermore, it does no good to your cause to castigate those souls who may be sympathetic to your cause and simply do not understand the issues or lack your supposed moral clarity on this matter.

A small dose of charity to others is called for regardless of how desperate the condition you might be facing.

Abortionists are murdering babies every day. Mothers are willingly killing their children. I believe that this atrocity must be stopped. But would you suggest that we march to the homes of the abortionist and lynch them? Should the mothers that abort their babies be executed? I would like to see whether your outrage is selective or is merely ginned up sensationalism.

[Qwinn]

I honestly don't know. He might be able to. My understanding is that the Senate is due to convene on Monday. We can hope they don't simply ignore the situation.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Please see post 233. The only check that the Judiciary has is the right of the Legislature to impeach standing judges.

The three branches are equal, but their powers are distinct.

1. The Legislature writes laws. They may not directly interpret or enforce laws.

2. The Judiciary interprets laws written by the Legislature. They may not directly write or enforce laws.

3. The Executive branch enforces the laws as written by the Legislature and interpreted by the Judiciary. They may not directly write or interpret laws.

In terms of checks and balances, the Executive branch has the sole power to nominate Judges to the bench, and the Legislature has the power to impeach standing judges. That's it. There's no other practical check on the Judiciary that I know of. The impeachment power of the Legislature is pretty powerful though, don't ask me why it hasn't been used.

The sad, disgusting truth is that Bush's LEGAL duty is to make sure that Greer's orders are -carried out-. His enforcement of the laws cannot ignore how the Judiciary has interpreted them.

The problem with this case is the way Greer has interpreted the laws and ruled on the conflicts in question. Bush cannot re-interpret those laws or rule differently on the rulings. The Legislature could in theory do so by creating a new law that was more specific and offset the older laws, but there may not be enough time for that. And unless the Legislature wiped out all right-to-die legislation completely off the books, Greer could probably "interpret" those remaining right-to-die laws to apply to Terri again anyway.

That's why I believe the Judiciary has become in practice (if not in theory) supreme. Interpretation trumps writing and enforcing of the law, every time.

Qwinn

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Apologies. Links to the Roman Catholic Bishops do not work.

E-mailed summer's letter to the rest w/ the subject line: To Michael Schiavo, members of the press and bar who helped martyr an innocent woman and wake a fallen nation. May God have mercy on us all.

[Palladin]

Please take me off your Jeb Bush ping list. I am thoroughly disgusted with the man, and wish to have no further dealings with him or his campaign group.

[Avoiding_Sulla]

How about calling an emergency session of the state legislature? Put the impeachment question up and get it seconded. Put a restraining order on all judgments by Greer.

Try this as the fallback position should you have a negative answer to Canticle_of_Deborah at number 232.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

There are laws on the books right now which Jeb could enforce to save Terri's life. Judges may not rewrite or reinterpret the law. They have done exactly that.

Jeb has the DUTY to step in and execute the laws on the books right now. He is choosing not to.

If the judiciary has become 'supreme' in practice in this country, it is due to cowardice, not the design of the founding fathers.