205 migrants die hard, lonely deaths (Barf Alert)

AZcentral ^ | Oct. 16, 2003 | Susan Carroll

[f7Oshawn]

It is a lonely place to die, out in the soft sandy washes. The desert floor, with its volcanic rock, can reach 160 degrees. Most people go down slowly.

Blood starts to seep into the lungs. Exposed skin burns and the sweat glands shut down. Little hemorrhages, tiny leaks, start in the heart.

[nmh]

MAYBE they should try to come to this country LEGALLY so this could not happen to them. Otherwise ILLEGAL aliens will continue to risk their life as well as VIOLATING LAWS in doing so.

[Arrowhead1952]

I am not kidding. There was an article in the Austin paper several months ago. I almost choked on my coffee when I read it. This is no joke.

[JustPiper]

How about those of us that legally immigrated to this great country?

Yes , like all four of my grandparents from Poland! We have a freeper who has become my friend in Poland, MatthewPaul. He and his wife are having a terrible time with redtape and want to come here badly. But they are not doing it illegally! And if those illegal sympatizers do not think Poland is oppressive, I dare them to go there!

[RoughDobermann]

Okay, for the last time...

You just said, "Why does this particular problem constitute and invasion that requires us to shoot them?" The answer is so abundantly self-evident that I'm amazed I've even taken the time to engage you in this discourse.

Awww....don't run away!

Not running away, just moving on. I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. Sometimes things are just that black and white.

[Lazamataz]

The same way we do with every other crime: Good old-fashioned police work. Some shoplifters are violent. We don't automatically shoot shoplifters because we can't determine their motives right away. If the shoplifter weilds a weapon, we shoot him. If he is peaceful, we don't. The same applies to any crime. That isn't such a hard concept it it?

Fine, but tell you what: That's not the topic of this debate. The topic of this debate is do we go to extraordinary measures to help people break the law? Air conditioned rest stops. Watering locations. Perhaps food and a B&B?

Listen. These criminals take the risks. If they die, I ain't sheddin' a tear. You want to sponser LifeFlight helicoptors scanning the desert for the poor widdwe oppwessed wefugees, you do it out of YOUR pocketbook, pallie.

[RoughDobermann]

How about those of us that legally immigrated to this great country?

What about them?

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

Show me where I've said that. I said that we shouldn't use violent force for non-violent immigrants. I've stated explicitly that with violent illegals (Al Qaeda, narcotraffickers, etc..) we can use violent means to stop them.

How do you distinguish a Mexican illegal from an Al Quada illegal?

[cardinal4]

Hmmmm. Perhaps they should have stayed in Mexico, they would still be alive..

[JustPiper]

We have many more senior citizens in this country dying lonely, hard deaths than 205! Seniors who must chose prescriptions over food! Healthcare over food!

[Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh]

This kind of article and insensitivity to human suffering really makes me ashamed of the types of people who call themselves "conservative" -

As a county, we do next to nothing to enforce our borders, or our immigration laws. We do nothing because we rely on the cheap labor of immigrant workers to sustain our service industry and agricultural industry. It is completely intelectually dishonest to try and "blame" the immigration problems on immigrants. Immigrants have no control over our immigration policies, or our immigration laws.

Neither political party really wants to stop illegal Mexican immigration - that is because both parties take money from businesses who thrive on illegal immigrant labor.

This is a country of immigrants. Immigration is a complex issue, and one that is subject to incredible rhetoric and callousness in its discussion. Just remember this - you come from immigrants, somewhere, sometime. The bible speaks very plainly about immigrants - do not deny justice to the alien, because you yourself were once aliens. The Israelites were aliens in Egypt, and God rescued them. So it makes sense that God would command them to treat Aliens with dignity and justice. How could God's own people deny justice and fair treatment to aliens given their history?

If you really have a problem with immigration, then put your money where your mouth is. Do not buy any product that was grown or manufactured or shipped or sold without the assistance of illegal immigrant labor. Take the extra costs for the products you do buy and donate that money to charity (you know, the higher cost that you would be paying if there was no illegal immigrant labor involved in your product purchase.) Or maybe you could demand that our own government, especially Republicans (who are in charge of every branch of government) actually enforce our labor laws?

Of course, they are not going to enforce the labor laws. Why? Because they are in the pocket of big business, and big business relies on cheap illegal immigrant labor to keep its profit ratios up.

The insensitivity and downright cruelness that I see when we discuss immigration is saddening. If we wanted to stop illegal immigration, we could. Until then, I would propose that we remember our own roots, and remember God's message about aliens...



Exodus 23:9
"Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt.

Leviticus 19:33
"When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him."

Leviticus 19:34
"The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God. "

[RoughDobermann]

hahaha. You never went to college did you?

Yes, I did actually. Your point?

[JustPiper]

How about those of us that legally immigrated to this great country?

Lawn care?

[JustPiper]

Good analogy...kinda like should we feel bad for Evil Knieval breaking bones or David Blaine starving himself?

[Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh]

"but the guys who sneak in through the desert and die out in the middle of nowhere have nobody to blame but themselves."

Do you buy products that are grown/made/sold with the assistance of illegal immigrant labor? If so, then they aren't the only one to blame.

[Lazamataz]

Ummm..actually, that wasn't even remotely the debate I was having. What are you talking about? No, I don't agree with doing any of that.

So what IS your point?

The article -- the initial focus of the debate -- implied we should go to extraordinary measures to help these people break the law.

If that's not YOUR point, what the bejesus are you on about?

[Lazamataz]

Why are these mutually exclusive? I feel compassion both for people who die from horrible deaths in the desert, and for people who are shot by Mexican troops. Why is this relevant again?

It is relevant because it shows the lengths countries will go to to preserve their concepts, and the rights accorded thereof, of citizenship.

You think they know something you don't....?