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Is Ted Cruz Right that Immigration Drives Down Wages?
The Street ^ | December 20, 2015 | Leon Lazaroff

Posted on 12/20/2015 11:44:39 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Immigration to the U.S. is an "economic calamity," according to Ted Cruz -- but only if it happens to you....

(Excerpt) Read more at thestreet.com ...


TOPICS: Campaign News; Issues
KEYWORDS: cruz; immigration; tedcruz; wages
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

It is very clear cut.
Mexicans are willing to work for less money than American citizens. It’s worse than that, though. Mexicans send their disposable income back to their families in Mexico instead of spending here with local American businesses.
30 years ago you could hire construction workers for $10 per hour. Go to the Home Depot parking lot today and you can still hire construction labor for $10 per hour, but none will be American citizens.


21 posted on 12/20/2015 12:39:39 PM PST by kik5150
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It’s always more complicated than the soundbites make it. The biggest way it undercuts Americans is because illegal aliens can be forced to work for less than minimum wage and without other basic protections all employees are supposed to have. The simplest solution is to convert them into legal guest workers. Once legal they will be able to get at least minimum wage. Additionally, the employers will be forced to pay the payroll taxes they get away with when they have illegal aliens as workers. At the bottom end of the economic spectrum that removes the unfair bias.

Flame away.


22 posted on 12/20/2015 12:45:29 PM PST by Oceander
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To: TigersEye

The macro theory says that, in effect, though carpenters wages are down, the natives who would have been carpenters are better off now that they have a new career in real estate or supervision of these immigrant carpenters (for instance).
This wasn’t a bad theory 1980-2000, overall, as both labor force participation and median incomes were rising most of the time.
Or, perhaps,the truth was hiding in the collinear data.
It’s much harder to make this argument for 2007-2015.


23 posted on 12/20/2015 12:49:10 PM PST by buwaya
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To: kik5150
HB-1 and HB-2 visa holders do the exact same thing.

They have no interest in building a life here.

24 posted on 12/20/2015 12:50:33 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: buwaya

The macro theory is a bunch of crap. I don’t know one carpenter who has a new career.


25 posted on 12/20/2015 12:58:15 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason and rule of law. Prepare!)
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To: Oceander

Legal or illegal they are taking jobs American citizens need and want. They have ruined the construction trades. The illegals are now taking factory jobs especially in the chicken plants.

They are not just here to pick the crops which are jobs most Americans don’t want to do and we already have guest worker programs for agricultural workers.

Forget jobs the illegals overwhelm our school systems, hospitals and all welfare programs.


26 posted on 12/20/2015 1:07:20 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
One case in point - I have three strapping 20 yr old sons. When they were in their late teens they looked for summer work in the construction field. They had friends who wanted to do the same thing. Could not find a job in the construction-booming DFW area.

These are not lazy boys, they are willing to work hard, but no one was looking to hire.

27 posted on 12/20/2015 1:14:02 PM PST by Slyfox (Ted Cruz does not need the presidency - the presidency needs Ted Cruz)
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To: abclily

Is Ted Cruz right? LOL!!!!

Of course and so are the thousands that pointed out the obvious when Cruz was still in short pants.


28 posted on 12/20/2015 1:18:30 PM PST by moehoward
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

None other than Caesar Chavez believed just that


29 posted on 12/20/2015 1:19:09 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy" YoursLolelf ala Louis Prima)
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To: Georgia Girl 2
They are not just here to pick the crops ...

They sure aren't. Back in 2006 when this issue started taking on some steam someone posted statistics about where illegals worked. Less than 5% of them work in the agriculture industry. They're not just employees either. Many of them are running businesses in concrete, carpentry, fencing, drywalling, etc, etc. And they only employ illegals.

30 posted on 12/20/2015 1:30:29 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason and rule of law. Prepare!)
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To: arista
Well you also have to consider that the immigrants earning wages then become consumers who spend that money, which adds demand to the economy, so it’s not quite as clear-cut as you say.

The immigrants are earning less money (remember, wages have either dropped, stagnated, or risen less than they would have without the immigrants) so the demand added to the economy is less than it would have been absent the foreign labor.

Yes. It is clear cut.

But as an aside, it isn't consumer-demand that drives the economy. Entrepreneurial investment in new or expanded production drives the economy.

31 posted on 12/20/2015 1:31:04 PM PST by BfloGuy ( Even the opponents of Socialism are dominated by socialist ideas.)
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To: TigersEye

Well, yes. It is crap when applied to particular people.
It does not take into account that the carpenters wife now needs to find work to make ends meet, etc. Or that the benefits, if any, are to someone other than the unfortunate carpenter. Maybe the real estate agent is making more money, improving median income.
But all that is beside the point over the last 8-9 years.


32 posted on 12/20/2015 1:31:20 PM PST by buwaya
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To: Slyfox

One of many effects that are much clearer in recent years.
In the old days in California, farmers would send labor agents into San Francisco to hire up the high school kids for fruit and vegetable harvests. No more.
The effect is easy to see in the age distribution breakdown in the labor participation data. The biggest hit is among youth, 16-25. Strangely, 55 and older labor participation has risen or stayed stable.


33 posted on 12/20/2015 1:35:59 PM PST by buwaya
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To: arista

It’s as clear-cut as I say, as far as wages are concerned. I thought we were talking about supply/demand of workers influencing wages.


34 posted on 12/20/2015 1:37:12 PM PST by abclily
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To: buwaya
Ivory Tower theories are usually crap when applied to actual people.

It does not take into account that the carpenters wife now needs to find work to make ends meet, etc.

That was always true. Long before the invasion of illegals it was a common saying in construction that "you need to marry a nurse, a real estate agent or a gal who worked in a bank to do more than survive."

Having your wages cut by a third or losing your job entirely doesn't help the long term goals of a family no matter what some pointy head says.

35 posted on 12/20/2015 1:39:13 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason and rule of law. Prepare!)
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To: TigersEye

This is true.


36 posted on 12/20/2015 2:33:18 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped)
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To: buwaya
...the natives who would have been carpenters are better off now that they have a new career in real estate or supervision of these immigrant carpenters (for instance)...

That just doesn't happen in reality. For one, the skill set and temperament to be a foreman (supervisor of carpenters) is different that that of a carpenter. Some start out as carpenters and rise through gaining experience and skills on the job, but many do not, and actually can not.

The situation for real estate agents is similar. Vastly different skill set. Now there are carpenters who work for real estate professionals -- the ones who flip houses. But the real criterion here is solid work at a low cost.

I almost all cases, a low-wage migrant will drive down the wages of a native worker who competes in the same area. The truth on there ground is that there are many low-skill, low education native-born workers in this country. The illegals coming in are going to displace them for two reasons: (1) lower wages and (2) higher skills and work ethics. I know, I have been there and done that in construction. For many years I remodeled real estate as a sideline. I tried hard to use American labor -- college kids, etc. None of them understood what made a good worker. They all wanted to quit well before the end of the day, and they all just dropped their tools (actually the tools I supplied them with) and walked off when it was quitting time.

Then I hired some day labor from the Home Depot parking lot. They worked steadily until about 15 minutes before quitting time and then cleaned up the site and brought the tools they had been using back to the shed. They made sure they were in good order, locked up and secured before leaving. They knew there would be no work the next day if there were no tools to work with.

The language barrier was a problem, but one that was much lower than then the work ethics problem of the American kids.

37 posted on 12/20/2015 2:41:39 PM PST by CurlyDave
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To: Oceander
The biggest way it undercuts Americans is because illegal aliens can be forced to work for less than minimum wage and without other basic protections all employees are supposed to have. The simplest solution is to convert them into legal guest workers. Once legal they will be able to get at least minimum wage.

Additionally, the employers will be forced to pay the payroll taxes they get away with when they have illegal aliens as workers. At the bottom end of the economic spectrum that removes the unfair bias.

BUMP

38 posted on 12/20/2015 2:45:20 PM PST by Finny (Voting "against" is a wish. Be ready to own what you vote for.)
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To: abclily

Duh.....Doesn’t everyone who ever had a basic economics class know this. More oil, gas goes down, more soybeans, price goes down, shortage of oil, gas goes up. It isn’t that difficult.


39 posted on 12/20/2015 3:34:28 PM PST by nobamanomore
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To: nobamanomore

Exactly!


40 posted on 12/20/2015 4:41:31 PM PST by abclily
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