Russia enters new territory : threatens NATO with pre emptive strike

Sergey Ivanov, via yahoo.de ^ | Oct. 2, 2003 | compiled by : self

[Truth666]

As BBC news reported yesterday, under the title "Russia Bares its Military Teeth" :
"Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov has said his country does not rule out a pre-emptive military strike anywhere in the world if the national interest demands it. "
The title hides the REAL message : Russia enters new territory : for the first time it threatens NATO in the media with a pre emptive strike.
More details from de.news.yahoo.com (translated fom german). The reason for the threat :
"continuation of NATO in its current form".

[Prodigal Son]

I got it now.

Donnerstag 2. Oktober 2003, 16:55 Uhr
Russland äussert Warnung an NATO
Moskau (AP) Russland hat der NATO mit einer radikalen Änderung seiner militärischen Strategie gedroht. Sollte das Verteidigungsbündnis in seiner jetzigen Form bestehen bleiben, sei Russland zu einer Änderung seiner Pläne über die Umstrukturierung der Streitkräfte gezwungen, heisst es in einem am Donnerstag veröffentlichten Dokument des Verteidigungsministeriums. Davon sei auch das russische Nuklearprogramm betroffen. Verteidigungsminister Sergej Iwanow schloss ausserdem einen Präventivschlag Russlands Anzeige

nicht aus.

Die Warnungen sind in einem Papier zur Modernisierung der Streitkräfte enthalten, das vor einem Treffen von Präsident Wladimir Putin mit Iwanow veröffentlicht wurde. Wenn die NATO als «militärische Allianz mit ihrer bestehenden militärischen Offensivdoktrin» erhalten bleibe, erfordere dies eine deutliche Umstrukturierung der militärischen Planungen und des Aufbaus der russischen Streitkräfte, heisst es in dem Dokument. Weitere Einzelheiten wurden nicht genannt. Unklar war, von wann das Papier stammt und ob es von der Regierung gebilligt wurde.

Putin sagte, eine grössere Verringerung der Truppenstärke sei nicht mehr geplant. Laut dem Papier des Verteidigungsministeriums soll die Zahl der Soldaten, die im August bei 1,16 Millionen lag, bis 2005 auf etwa eine Millionen reduziert werden. Seit 1992 wurde die Truppenstärke mehr als halbiert. Putin hat sich wiederholt für einen Ausbau der Beziehungen Moskaus zur NATO eingesetzt und den Beitritt ehemaliger Sowjetrepubliken zu dem Bündnis gebilligt. Militärvertreter sehen in der Ausweitung der NATO dagegen einen Versuch der USA, die einst von Moskau kontrollierten Gebiete zu dominieren. Der vorbeugende Einsatz von Gewalt könne nicht völlig ausgeschlossen werden, wenn die Interessen Russlands dies erforderten, sagte Iwanow.

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I don't read this as threatening NATO. A pre-emptive strike doctrine is useless as a deterrent if you don't let people know in advance that you are implementing the doctrine. Come on man, haven't you watched Dr Stangelove? You have to tell people you've got a weapon before the weapon will deter anyone...

[Eternal_Bear]

Russia, China, Iran and N Korea are arming to the teeth. Guess who their main target is? If we don't strike first. I guarantee they will. Just the sad facts.

[BabsC]

Russia, China, Iran and N Korea are arming to the teeth.

Russia worrys me they have a lot of patience.

China will be preoccupied with the hordes of starving North Koreans while their military sits waiting to attack Taiwan.

If North Korea backs up it's saber rattling with real threatening action Japan has promised a preemptive strike.

With the right covert backing the younger generation will keep Iran off balance internally and hopefully delay any further nuclear developement.

Just a few personal opinions.

The countries mentioned above should all be on the same list of other nations that are potential dangers to America by the Federal Government. That's truly their main job according to the constitution.

[Poohbah]

Since we have global reach I am sure just about every country has at least a rough draft of an anti-US plan of operations.

Russia's nuclear posture statements of today are very similar to NATO's from the 1960-70s, when we thought that the Godless Atheistic Communist Horde would simply overrun Western Europe in a conventional war.

In other words...Russia thinks that they're the weaker player in this scenario.

[GOP_1900AD]

Predictably, if the US / Western strategy were to factor in your point of view, it would lead to disarmament, lack of preparation and lower geostrategic capability. I now have an algorithm. Here is is: If [concern about Russia/PRC/Trans-Eurasian Axis threat to the West] then [Poohbah will downplay and discount]. Whose side is Poohbah on?

[GOP_1900AD]

The first "is" should be "it"....

[bk1000]

This is vey series!

[GOP_1900AD]

Ping.

[Poohbah]

Predictably, if the US / Western strategy were to factor in your point of view, it would lead to disarmament, lack of preparation and lower geostrategic capability. I now have an algorithm. Here is is: If [concern about Russia/PRC/Trans-Eurasian Axis threat to the West] then [Poohbah will downplay and discount]. Whose side is Poohbah on?

Well, well, well.

belmont_mikhail_suslov goes around making slanderous allegations...AGAIN.

[hchutch]

Why am I not surprised?

[GOP_1900AD]

If this is slander, then please present to me proof (e.g. an old post, etc) where either of the two of you have overtly promoted: 1) Rearmament 2) A more robust or aggressive stance toward the PRC, Russia, Syria, Pakistan, DPRK and the like 3) Questioned the validity of the claimed liberalizations by the USSR 4) Expressed concern regarding the strategic military intent of other nation states. Show me.

[hchutch]

You have pretty much claimed that both Poohbah and I are traitors or at the very least backing hostile nations to the detriment of the United States. The fact we do NOT agree with your view of the present geo-politicial situation seems to be the only proof you have shown.

Post your proof that either Poohbah or I are selling out this country, if you have any outside your delusional and paranoid ravings. If you have none, then retract your slanderous lies - or tany future claim will be reported as a personal attack via the abuse button.

You have serious accusations. YOU are required to PROVE them, not demand that Poohbah and I prove ourselves innocent. In this country, the burden of proof has been on the accuser, not the accusee. Unless, that is, you feel that should be changed as part of the "drastic measures" you adovcate on your profile page.

--

For the record, I have been in favor of maintaining and increasing military strength, including this thread on the SURTASS LFA system:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/779984/posts

Such a system would be very detrimental to the People's Liberation Army Navy, particularly its submarine fleet, don't you think?

[GOP_1900AD]

Thanks for your link. To be fair, I do not recall you to have been such a vehement discreditor of concerns vis a vis the PRC, Russia, others as have been a few other posters. See, I am not as bad as some paint me to be!

[hchutch]

I believe Poohbah also spoke out on behalf of that system as well.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/938185/posts

I believe he is also owed an apology.

[Just mythoughts]

What is interesting is that they did not say which hemisphere of "NATO" they were threatening.

[Truth666]

Hemisphere is a word that ceased to exist at the global village's school.

[TBall]

From what I can tell during the clinton years the US had a great opportunity to strengthen its relationship with Russia. Instead, clinton and NATO decided to piss off a very powerful nation.

[middie]

Anyone who seriously believes that the Russians have either the capacity, will or intent to take a hostile posture as to anyone other than the insurgents in their own states must be smokin' something strange. They couldn't mount a major land or air campaign against the the pricipality of "Grand Duchy ofFenwick."

For those you who are too young or don't know the great movies of the late-great Peter Seller, I refer to the tiny, almost broke land stuck in the 17th Century that declared war on the United States in "The Mouse That Roared," cira 1960s. Its purpose was to lose the war and obtain post-war reconstruction aid from the U.S. The Fenwick "warriors," outfitted in uniforms that look like the Vatican guards or The Tower of London's Beefeaters, inadvertently come into possession of the ultimate Doomsday bomb and the U.S. surrenders to them.

While that story line is enormously funny, the present condition of the Russian military is pitiful. It hasn't the fuel, beans or bullets to even engage in field exercises or live fire training.

This is a fallacious story that deserves nothing more than a distinct yawn and a turn of the page.

[Truth666]

BTW, the threat didn't make the Russians loose the sense of humour
http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=3496864&startrow=11&date=2003-10-03&do_alert=0

[Just mythoughts]

Interesting words just a few days after Putin's visit with his strange words. This sounds like a shot across to bow back to President Bush.