"Chat" CONSERVATIVE PARENTS (AND CONCERNED PARTIES)OF PARENTS OF "AT RISK" CHILDREN

05/22/2003 | cherry_bomb88

[cherry_bomb88]

This is a new thread dedicated to conservative parents of children/teens "at risk".

I noticed in my FReeping that there are a lot of other conservative parents like me dealing with children or teens that are socially "at risk". Yes, there are other web sites out there dedicated to this, however they tend to be liberally/socialistically slanted. They have a whinning "poor pitful me" attitude. As conservatives, from talking with many of you, we take a different attitude and require our children to have that same attitude.

I FReep Mailed Jim Robinson to get his "blessing" on this thread. If you are die-hard anti-medication or don't believe these issues we face are real, please move along and don't come in here to chastize us or blame us or condem us. We have enough to deal with on a daily basis.

The purpose of this thread is for conservative parents (and other concerned parties such as friends,relatives, caregivers, educators, etc.) to have a place to come and share resources, information, ideas, and vent frustrations about the daily life we live with these children. It is also to encourage each other, not coddle. I have found that conservatives have a "we will overcome" attitude in dealing with this. We need to help each other not get discouraged and maintain this attitide.

Please feel free to stay and chat even if you are just "interested" in the subject and have no real personal experience with it. But, again, if this is something you disagree with, please do not stay just to stir up trouble.

[Risa]

I read about two successful studies that have been done with the administration of high doses of omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil tablets) to people who had manic depression. After a few months, the people who took the fish oil were reported to show such a marked improvement in mood stability that NIMH planned to repeat the study using a much larger population.

Everyone would do well to increase the omega-3's in their diet, since a proper omega-3/omega-6 fatty-acid ratio is crucial to good health. In America, we get a lot of Omega-6 FAs in our diet and very little Omega-3 FAs, unless we eat a lot of fish, like salmon, or flax seeds. In areas where a lot of fish is consumed, rates of depression and manic depression are reported to be much lower than in America, Australia and Europe.

I'll see if I can find the outcome for the NIMH study. I am usually skeptical about these things, but the people who took the fish oil just raved about how much better they felt. Since Omega 3s become part of the structure of our cell membranes, they could be involved in proper signaling between nerve cells and neurons.

best,
risa

[ocos]

I think you are trying to set up those of us who disagree with your personal views on meds for failure. There are people who love and work with kids and who have experience that have come to other conclusions than you. I quote

"I FReep Mailed Jim Robinson to get his "blessing" on this thread. If you are die-hard anti-medication or don't believe these issues we face are real, please move along and don't come in here to chastize us or blame us or condem us. We have enough to deal with on a daily basis."

There are conservative minded folks that do believe that kids have real issues but that they are behavior issues not disorder issues. You might has well have said something like this. If you are one of those crazies who are not die-hard medication you need not darken the doorstep around here. I take care of 12 first through third graders as my profession as a houseparent at a boarding school and have came to a much different conclusion than you. I have worked this job for five years and love my kids. My kids have many behavioral problems but not one have I truly believed needed medication. Before this job I worked for five years in an adjudicated youth facility for gang members and kids in trouble. I saw many "labeled" kids jump three or four reading levels in one year with structure and discipline. Even after working with kids many others would say are heading straight to the pen I do not think one of those kids needed to be on meds. I am conservative and think that you need to welcome all views to your conversation as long as there is decorum. Maybe you will learn something.

[ocos]

I am worried that you have set up those who disagree with you to be chastisers, condemers and blamers. People can disagree without being called mean. You may be trying to give yourself an out.

"I FReep Mailed Jim Robinson to get his "blessing" on this thread. If you are die-hard anti-medication or don't believe these issues we face are real, please move along and don't come in here to chastize us or blame us or condem us. We have enough to deal with on a daily basis."

[cherry_bomb88]

If you are anti medication, I have no problem with you being in here....

What I don't want is you (or anyone else) attacking those of us that have been the "non medicated" route and have no other alternative.

Yes, there are MANY kids that are medicated without need, just as some diabetics can control it without insulin and solely on diet, same with some with high blood pressure, etc....as in all medical issues, it's a case of "how severe is it????"

HOWEVER there are some kids that cannot live a *normal* life without medication...even with structured discipline and love. I've been the non-medicated route, went there for 5 years. I've even thought lately, at times, that maybe the doctors are crazy and my daughter could go without meds. I've asked her what her preference is. Last year when we first started medication she would have given me a different answer...this year she said "mom, when I don't take them I feel out of control...either I can't get happy or I can't stop being angry". When I say angry, I mean to the point I don't care who you are, you could be "The Rock" and she'd look at you with this tenseness & rage that would scare the crap out of you. So, my hope is to help her learn to control herself & her diet & her life style so that eventually she can decrease her medications, however having seen what happens when she's off them for a couple days, I would doubt that she will ever be off them.

If you don't believe in meds, fine for you: especially if it works for *your* kids. But there are kids that not being medicated doesn't work for. Whether or not you choose to believe that is fine, as long as you don't take the hollyweird approach and try and impose your values & beliefs on others.

I wasn't trying to set anyone up....but I'm tired (as are many other conservatives in here) being told that because we BELIEVE in medication for our children after going the other route we must be liberal socialist commies. (and that's a quote of what I and others have been called...I've seen it). And we have been VICIOUSLY attacked without provocation for talking about meds in other news forums when a news item comes up we can relate to. That's what I am talking about...those "die-hards" that go around looking for parents who do medicate so they can just give them a piece of their mind and espout hate.

Bipolar is a MEDICAL condition...I hate that they call it a mental illness...it's caused by chemical imbalances the same as diabetes...so why is it ok for a diabetic to treat with medication, or a person with high blood pressure, but not a bipolar??????

There are other parents in here with kids with autism, turret’s and things with which you've probably not dealt with because these kids would not be sent to the kind of home you speak of. They need medication to have some normalcy.

I welcome alternative treatment ideas that for many can minimize or do away with the need for medication...including diet, "holistic" treatments, etc. HOWEVER...what I don't welcome is anyone in here being "attacked" for their choice with their children. EVERY child you work with is different. And as many as you've seen, you must admit you've not seen them all. The very basis of freedom & conservatism is that the government (or anyone else for that matter) does NOT have the right to tell us what is best for us (including raising our children in the best manner we see fit...yes, obviously negating child abuse, etc).

So, you are very welcome to stay and help us with your experiences. Just don't get condescending with parents that do choose to medicate. It's an option, like all treatments...and in MANY cases, it's not an option. Respect for each other decisions without judging & *attacking* is my focus.

OK????? With that little diatribe....welcome to our forum.

[cherry_bomb88]

I've always heard that fish is "brain" food my whole life. Perhaps there is some key. After all, we take vitamins, etc. because we lack what we need in todays "fast food" and "prepackaged" food society.

Can you buy that over the counter at a pharmacy?

[cherry_bomb88]

I'm of the opinion that drugs for ADHD are horribly over prescribed and that the majority of children who take them probably don't need them. Which makes it all the worse for the children who DO need them, because people (like me) tend to think that a little more discipline would do the trick.

AMEN SISTA!!! I am the first to say DO NOT JUST MEDICATE...try other things first. But, I believe that if 5 years of diet, discipline, etc. are not helping and your child is getting worse with the depression, rage, anxiety and mania...well, there's a time and a place for all things.

It just PEEVES me off that the first thing some doctors say is "medicate". You're right, I'd venture to say about 50% of the ADD/ADHD's that are on medication do NOT need it.

. I saw what he was doing and told him where the cleaning supplies were so he could clean the tub when he was finished. He was shocked that it was expected of him, because "Mom always did it".

I have the same issue with my ex husband...he is just a *babysitter* and he tends to react, rather than act...and by the time he's ready to react, he OVER reacts....when the whole situation could have been headed off by a *little bit* of involved parenting.

When I pointed out that daughter wasn't paying attention because she already knew what was being taught, teacher responded that meds would make her easier to handle.

Was JUST having this conversation with my friend over the weekend. I have a *theory* and say what you want...but when these damn educators started moving the date of school entry from age 5 by Dec 1 to age 5 by Aug 1 (or Sep 1 depending on area) I believe the incidents of ADD/ADHD shot through the roof!!!! You have sooooooooooooooooo many kids now in schools that had to wait a FULL year to join in...and by that time everything is behind where they are. My daughter is an Oct 2, she was very bright at home and had to wait, she started doing bad in school around 1st grade and I couldn't understand it. I think they need to rethink that policy. I'd like to see a study on the correlation between late entry and add/adhd/learning problems. I'd bet it's higher on those kids with late b-days. They need to go middle of the road on that...if the b-day is after a certain date, but before say the end of the calendar year (12/31) then they should do tests and see and it should be on a per kid basis, not a general stereotype!

I’ll go back to lurking now.

Oh please don't!!! You have some great input!!! The whole purpose here is different things work for different people and I think we can help each other with resources, ideas, etc. that can for some, decrease the needs for meds or get rid of it altogether.

Here's something for your son to find humor in:

[cherry_bomb88]

I am worried that you have set up those who disagree with you to be chastisers, condemers and blamers.

Not trying to "set up" anyone to be anything...just myself, as well as others who've I've both invited and have gravitated here, have been harshly chastized, condemed and blamed (as well as criticized, screamed at and called names) on FR in the past for our choices. Just trying to warn those people they will not be tolerated here!

People can disagree without being called mean.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! Think tanks are full of disagreements...the sum of the whole is smarter than the individual. CONSTRUCTIVE debate & disagreements help to resolve problems around the world. I COMPLETELY welcome that in here. But I do not want ANY personal attacks...which is kinda the whole philosiphy of FR (however it happens all to often).

You may be trying to give yourself an out.

An out from what? LOL I have no problem with how I am raising my children and as far as anyone else's *opinion* on FR that doesn't know me...well, you know...I'll just say "opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and they all stink" (not my original quote). I want a forum where people will NOT be afraid to speak out for fear of what you mentioned. It has happened to all of us. Not everyone disagrees as eloquently & in a completely *topical* (as opposed to personal) manner.

Anyhow, again, I welcome you to stay. It sounds like you have some experiences that could be greatly beneficial to us...and perhaps you could learn something from us as well ;o)

[oceanperch]

Hey this time of day is one of the times a day I get to sleep.

Have to rest or the brain does really strange things (mine goes on a manic binge).

Thanks for the ping my sons care is literally 24 hr care so he is sleeping at the moment I am going to get back to rest and will chime in later. (beans boiling on stove woke me up)

The nay sayers do not walk in our shoes they will never get that our disabled kids are our lone journey.

Do not exhaust yourself explaining rather rest in comfort of those with same responsibilities. Be back when my brain is more awake. Hugs and prayers.

[codercpc]

Thanks for this thread.

Although I do not personally have a disabled child, we do have close friends that do.

For this to come to me today is a bit ironic. We just took a four day vacation, and took my sons best friend along with us. They are both 13, so you can imagine some of the conversations my husband and I overheard :)

For my son's friend, Josh, this was the first time he had ever been out of the state, and this was his first real vacation. The reason for that is mainly because his 16 year old sister is totally disabled. She has severe Cerebral Palsy, and Josh and I were talking today about the day to day stuff. It made my heart swell with pride when he talked about his sister. He said "We don't know how much time we have with Jaime, so we make sure that everyday is special for her and us." He also went on to tell us how he just wants to cry when he hears others not realizing that she is a "real" person, and they tend to talk around her and never to her.

My son has thankfully had a chance to see how they treat Jaime and that makes me happy. We can't throw these children away.

God Bless You All.

[LuLuLuLu]

Thank you for your kind welcome.

Daughter referenced in above posts has an IQ of 172. She right now has 3 1/2 languages and after her MBA is going for her JD.

Younger stepson, the ADHD kid, hooked back up with his Dad at 18. Younger SS "spent" his entire college fund in a nuthouse (being treated for said conditions) and the first words to my husband were "I was an A@@". He's now an incredibly responsible young man.

cherry, my oldest started school at 4; she could read, write and do basic arithimec; had a smattering of French. The freaking "officials" at the school put her in 3rd grade. She was not yet 4' tall and weighed all of about 60 lbs. Yep. Third grade was the place for the girl.

Oh hell, y'all don't want or need my diatribe on the public schools.

I'll just say this: Before anyone blindly agrees to meds, try diet and real exercise. When meds are necessary, love your children; they're already set apart from the norm.

Semper Fi

[andysandmikesmom]

I am going to enter in on this thread, as I find it quite interesting and fascinating...let me say upfront, I have had no problems with either of my boys, as far as being 'at risk' children...

What I find most interesting and refreshing about this thread, is that it has parents who are fearless, and unashamed to say, that yes, their child has a problem, that puts them at risk, here is what we have gone through, here is what we are facing now...and most refreshing of all, we do have to use medications, if so warranted...

If you would indulge me, let me tell you why I find this interesting and informative....my older boy, Mike, died many years ago, at age 15, from a rare and usually fatal type of leukemia...he lived for only 15 months with the disease, and during that time he was in the hospital for 8 months, and I was his primary caregiver, nurse, and whatever else I needed to be, when he was finally at home...

After he died, I remember burying him, and then seem to have gone into some sort of stupor, because can not remember anything else, until about a year later, when I was admited to a psychiatric wing of the hospital, where I spent a week...I was diagnosed with severe clinical depression...the doctor assured me, that I had probably been going on a downward swing toward depression for many years, and the death of my son just brought it to the surface...with or without my sons death, he felt I eventually would have manifested all the symptoms of depession sooner or later...I was put on meds(imipamine, an anti-depressant)and have lots of one on one meetings with mental health specialists...the counseling lasting for several years....

Eventually I tried to get off the anti-depressants, but when I did, I began the slow slide back into depression...so my own family doc, knowing my history, put me on Prozac...I am still on Prozac, and the few times we have tried weaning me off, have met with no success...so I feel that it may well be that I will be on Prozac for the rest of my life...

But so be it...the counseling and the anti-depessants, saved my sanity, saved my life, saved my marriage, saved my ability to care for my remaining child...

Yet, from the beginning of my diagnosis, I have always met opposition from people, who have no idea, what true severe clinical depression is, ,or how it can ruin your life, or cause you to commit suicide, if left untreated...I have had people tell me such cruel things as "Just pray, and if you just trust God, you will be cured"...or "just snap out of it, you son is gone, deal with it" or..."If you have to rely on anti-depressants, you must be weak"....there are always those who know nothing, yet pontificate on everything...

As I look back on my life, and having read alot about depression in its many forms, I have realized that my mom was not doubt, severely clinically depressed, ,and just never got treated...how else to explain her months on end of true sadness, her inability to cope with normal situations, her long, long 'blue'periods....I look at my moms mothers behavior, ,and believe she was manic....her extreme highs, and her extreme lows, and her often irrational behavior lead me to believe these things of both my mom and my maternal grandmother....

Am I a product of genetics, leaning towards depression, or did my sons illness and death, become the defining factor for me...I believe its a combination of the two factors...

When I was in group sessions in the hospital one gal brought up the most interesting point....she had been hospitalized more than once with depression...she said, you know, ,when you are absent from work for a hospital stay, you can return to work with a cast on your arm and explain you broke your arm...or say that you had surgery and show off your surgical scar...but when you brain malfunctions, how can you show that...how do you make people understand, that just as your body becomes ill or gets hurt, so can your brain and your mind become ill and get hurt...

And if people seem to think that meds are ok for pain from broken bones, or antibiotics to fight off infections, or chemo drugs for cancer, why do those very same people scoff at the idea that perhaps meds are needed for help the brain and the mind heal?

I salute and admire each and every mom here, who has an 'at risk' child, and is doing their very best to help their child, in whatever way that may be...I know, it must be hard, to go against those who scoff at the idea of using different meds for children who are 'at risk'...

Those of us who have never had an 'at risk' child in this sense, cannot fathom what you moms are enduring, and how much more difficult it may be, to raise you child...

I also think that keeping this thread going, in this particular FR forum, rather than on Yahoo Chat, is the better idea...simply because there are so many lurkers on FR, who altho they may not join the thread, are nevertheless reaping benefits from it, perhaps for their very own child....

And I would appreciate lurking as well...I have nothing to add, of any importance, or factual knowledge in this area, but like to keep myself informed of the newest areas of treatment and research in this area, because my younger boy, Andy, who is now 28, may someday present me with grandchildren, and who knows, perhaps a grandchild of mine, may be an 'at risk' child....it never hurts to have lots of information...

Thanks for letting me go on and on...and thanks in advance for not booting me, because I have no children in this situation...

[ChemistCat]

What about US? What about when OUR health is trying hard to take the front seat? I'm so sick of being sick myself, and it looks like I may have a brand new major problem. My kids--the autistic one and the normal two--need me to be at my best, and I am just not going to be. I am feeling so sorry for myself. I don't have time to be going to the doctor for myself. I'm having to choose between things my kids need and things I need to do, perhaps, to save my own life, and I resent it.

[cherry_bomb88]

Thank you! We're happy to have you here.

Those young boy's words brought tears to my eyes. I spent a much needed break with my friend at her cabin on the lake this weekend whilst my ex husband took the kids. Up at the campground her cabin is at there are two downs syndrome kids there, one of them being her niece. They are the most delightful and wonderful people. I talked to the mom for quite awhile. Parents of special needs kids have courage & strength beyond belief. They are the most unselfish, gracious, understanding and kind people I have the pleasure of having spent time with. We should all be so kind.

Your son's friend is so very wise. Illness or not, none of us knows how much time we have left on this earth and I've long taught my daughters to enjoy life to the fullest and never part company with someone you care about while you are still upset or mad.

[cherry_bomb88]

Welcome mom! I suppose I should have titled this "and parents at risk"....it's hard to be a mom when you can't function. Because the what I deal with on a daily basis with my daughter, I am on anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medication....Paxil. I doubt on some of my worst months (like this past one) that I would make it through without medication. So I know just how my daughter feels

It sounds to me if your grandma was bipolar (periods of depression followed by periods of mania, etc). I'm not making a diagnosis, I'm not a doctor, LOL...just an observation from what you said. You are quite right that you are a product of genetics. My aunt was a manic depressant (what they now call bipolar) and I truly believe from his behavior my ex is an undiagnosed bipolar. So my daughter had the luck of the draw from genetics.

I agree about the medication. Our society still looks at things like bipolar and depression, and even autism and downs syndrome, etc. as "mental" illnesses....they are so ignorant to the facts that the problem stems from a physical ailment...a chemical imbalance, etc.

Risa...I went out and bought fish oil capsules tonight and I'm going to try that with my daughter....if anything can decrease the medication she's on, that's fantastic.

Mom...the anti meds people don't realize, at least in the case of my daughter, that something like lithium is a chemical that occurs naturally in your body, your kidneys produce it. Part of a bipolar's problem is their kidneys do not produce enough (hmmm, kinda like a diabetic needing insulin???? oh, but that's ok...that's diabetes).

I praise people who's family member (be it child, parent, grand parent) can be kept off of medication. Medications are not fun, they are expensive, they are a hassle. I spend (after insurance) $150 a month on medications. And a lot of the same on co-pays and deductibles for testing and such. What people need to understand is doctors (at least GOOD doctors) don't just throw people on meds,they put them on them and then monitor them to make sure they got it right....change them when necessary, etc. It's not a "ok, here's your medication...go live happily ever after" type of deal.

However, welcome and I"m so glad you are here.

[cherry_bomb88]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{MAJOR HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Cat, I sooooooooooooo hear you.

It's why I just took my one opportunity in a month to go to my friend's cabin. Cheap (almost free, just took some food with) get-away. The 3 days away was a God send!

Do you have anyone that can relieve you and give you a break even for an overnight? Even if you do a cheap camping out trip just so you can get away and relax. Maybe at your church???? Heck, if I lived closer I'd help you out!

This month has been the month from H*E*L*L for me. By the end of last week I was at a point where all I could do was cry. I totally feel for you. I think most of us have been there, if we aren't still there.

Ours is not an easy row to hoe...but God entrusted it with us, so that must mean we can do it. Right?

[cherry_bomb88]

LuLu....great kids you have there, you should be extremely proud!

Oh hell, y'all don't want or need my diatribe on the public schools.

We don't mind...I bet we ALL have quite a few of our own...heck, we could probably make this into the "bash the public school system" thread. LOL

Before anyone blindly agrees to meds, try diet and real exercise. When meds are necessary, love your children; they're already set apart from the norm.

THAT is a very true statement. I think it's like a *crazy* circle (no pun intended)...they are different already, they become depressed, they take medications, they are more different because of the medications so they become more depressed and then they start all over in that cycle.

My daughter this past bought of depression was in the hospital day/group program for 3 weeks..while she was gone some of her *friends* started a rumor that she was pregnant and out having an abortion. 1) She's only 13 (and no I'm not naive, I know that happens) 2) Even if that WAS the case, she'd not have an abortion, she'd be made to have it and give it up for adoption 3) Say on some off chance where I went totally liberally mental and let her have an abortion, are these kids spreading these rumors TOTALLY stupid...she could have had an abortion on Friday and been back at school on Monday, not out for 3 weeks!!!! So, she tried to go back to school 2 weeks ago and I was in talking to her principal trying to get things worked out, disspell some of the rumors, talk about her future educational goals and well, the rumors and whispers and people looking and pointing became to much and she booked out of school and the cops went and got her (I don't chase her down when she gets enraged). So for those of you who think *tough love*, believe me, there's a LARGE amount of that mixed in with meds in my house....but to me, *tough love* does not mean beating your kid into compliance. It means being prepared to do whatever necessary to control your child outside of violence (including calling the police, etc.).

Obviously regular school was not going to be an option for her any longer...she's now in a lockdown academy that does have some therapy. She needs the extra discipline and structure. And she's happy she is going there. She said at least there she fits in. Sad, huh??? As if these kids didn't have enough the other so-called normal kids have to ostracize them to the point where they feel like they can't belong ever.

Sad thing is, she (my older daughter) is bright, athletic, sweet, funny, creative, artistic, expressive and extremely wonderful. I often have told the doc's that I believe her problems stem from the fact that she has a high EQ (emotional quotiant)...she picks up on people's emotions..."reads" them...and she's too young to know how to deal with all the data she's getting.

My younger daughter is absolutely wonderful as well..and thank GOD has no problems, other than needing to fight for attention because so much of it goes to my older one. I spend a lot of time trying to give her some one on one. (oh, and my younger one is a slob...normal for a teen, but sometimes I say that's why my older daughter's OCD is a blessing from heaven...she helps me keep my house spotless and in oder).

Children are wonderful and need to be loved, and I love mine every second...and tell them that too.

[andysandmikesmom]

You are so correct about the cost of meds.....My husband has great health insurance through the post office...it pays for our medication after we fullfill the deductible....but until Prozac finally got a generic counterpart, even with the insurance, the cost of Prozac was sky high....now, with the generic Prozac, the cost is way down, and at least for me, the generic Prozac works just as well...

You sound as if you have your hands and your life, very, very full, trying to give that extra special attention to both of your children....they are lucky children to have a mom such as you, ,who makes every effort to make sure that they are loved and well taken care of...

Shame on those other children for starting and spreading such nasty rumors about your daughter...unfortunately, we all know that kids, and teens, can be so very cruel, and the teens are old enough to know better...I know its so hurtful to you, as well as it is to your daughter...

Thanks for the welcome, and I am sure to lurk, and chime in from time to time....

I am so impressed with the parents here, who have to work extra hard to provide a stable life for their children...at the very least, I can see that it is hard, and often heartbreaking....

[cherry_bomb88]

After a few months, the people who took the fish oil were reported to show such a marked improvement in mood stability that NIMH planned to repeat the study using a much larger population.

There's the information as to what Risa was talking about, if anyone is interested in participating in the study. But you have to be over 18 (or your child does).

For parents with OCD kids (obsessive compulsive disorder) and phobic disorders...there is another study... they are testing the use of St. John's Wart (an herb) to treat this.

And for anyone wondering about other illness testing...this site has testing for everything from heart disease, to asthma. It's a great resource if you are into being a guinea pig (or getting progressive treatment free...that's how I prefer to look at it). Or if you just want to see what's up & coming in possible treatments. Clinicaltrials.gov

[ChemistCat]

Well, my husband lost his second job, which we expected, and planned for, but money is tight. I have a bunch of tests this week...including one kind of ultrasound I've never even heard of before and am really scared about.... but, that said, I think we'll be doing SOMETHING when time permits, or, if health permits, I'll be taking the kids and we'll be spending time with my parents. They pamper us! But I have to get well first.

[cherry_bomb88]

You're a mom, you know....you do what you have to do. My kids are not angels, but they are and always will be my little girls.

I'm on a *mission* right now...to pull up some info on some alternative treatments to see what's out there for those that want to try. Sometimes it works. I just added fish oil capsules to my daughter's diet and I"m going to add st. john's wart...at the very least it can't hurt...and she's all for it, she said "mom, if I can take the vitamins & minerals and reduce or eliminate my meds and still feel good, that's awesome. Smart kid!!!