Where's the "Nuke Mecca" crowd today??

Me ^ | April 9th, 2003 | Me

[The Lake City Gar]

I've been going through posts all day today and have been absolutely overjoyed. It seems as if we're finially making in-roads on preventing another 9-11 or worse. I wish I could bookmark this entire day...This place has it ALL covered, it should be used as a History lesson in years to come...The American Internet at it's FINEST!

But I just thought of something...

Where is the "Nuke Mecca" crowd? The "The only good muslim is a dead muslim" crowd? The "Islam is a death cult" crowd? The "Intern all Arabs" crowd? The "Islam is a religion of peace" crowd?

I've had a few run-ins with these people over the past few months. I've tried to make the obvious case that not ALL 1.6 billion muslims in the world are blood thirsty animals. And I've been called everything from a muslim to a communist to a democrat to a traitor. I've taken a beating for standing up against what I saw as bigotry...And many others have gone through the same.

But today we saw muslims handing flowers to our troops, kissing pictures of President Bush and waiving American Flags.

Is this just an act? Are they trying to lull us into a false sense of security while they are plotting to kill every last one of us in the name of their "Moon God"? Or are many of them simply held against their will by brutal dictators and/or religious fanatics who have warped their muslim ideals and ways?

I choose to believe it's the latter. And I hope the above mentioned crowds are gone for good.

[TopQuark]

YOu can Google all you want, Louis. The problem is, that most of what you see is doctored much longer after the fact. For about a month I was going to CAIR site, and nowhere was a condemnation I mentioned. In fact, they would say something, like "all forms of violence" and transit to the legitimate struggle in the Middle East. Hannity was almost torturing their leader to state a condemnation without ifs or buts. They would not.

The problem is partly Islamic and mostly Arabic. Whereas in Judaism and Christianity the right and wrong you commit do not depend on the religion of the receipent, in the ARab culture it is not the case. In essence, a lie to a non-Muslim is not a lie, sexual frivolities (including rape) against a non-Muslim woman is not a frivolity, etc. The loyalties are in decreasing order: to your tribe, to your confederation of tribes (country), to Arabs, and to Muslims. Thus, you should always support a member of the tribe against a member of another (no matter, almost, what your friend did). That is why an Arab will support another Arab against a Turk but a Turk against a Russian, for instance.

The Muslims here were caught in that net. They simply cannot acknowledge before an infidel that a Muslim was wrong.

HAving seen the backlash after few months, they got wiser, and your Googls search may indeed find something (the first few I read were conspicuously abreviated; the ad did not have a date).

I watched it happen without any prejudice. In fact, I fought with those who attacked Islam itself (to the point one poster told me to go back to "my country" and pray to my "moon God"). I was the one to post on FR the reply from Bush to the Turkish Association, primarily because the original letter sent to the White HOuse was so patriotic and so moving.

Yet, I as well as many others noticed the absence of unconditional condemnation from the Arab organizations in this country. They would begin with "Islam is against violence," and before the sentence is over, "... because of American policies in the Middle East."

Do your Googling again.

[Jhoffa_]

...

[higgmeister]

I also am still here.

Even when the average Muslim is not a
blood-thirsty animal they do whatever
the Imams or Mullahs or Ayatollahs
tell them.  Peace through strength is
our only hope.  Even when we stave
off more fighting we give them time
to regroup and plan our destruction.  

[Luis Gonzalez]

First and foremost, CAIR is quite possibly the Wahabbis propaganda arm in the US, yet they too issued a condemnation. You must have missed it

I've been following this story since 9/11, and I saw the statements, I wondered why they did not make it to the mainstream media.

The easy way out is to take the attitude that whatever a Muslim may say that goes against our pre-conceived notion of all Muslims is a lie (how incredibly convenient), that's just not the case.

Go to this site, and read up on some of their documents on extremism.

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims living in the world today that would no more consider raping a woman, than you or I, the extremists wish us to see them all as they paint them...after all, bin Laden's goal is to start a world-wide religious war.

BTW, while 80% of all Arabs are Muslims, 80% of all Muslims are not Arabs.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Or you could click here, if you have sometime to listen to my interview with Jamal Hoffman, of the Islamic Supreme Council of America earlier this year.

[EternalVigilance]

And they are alive to love America in spite of Christians such as the "Nuke them" crowd, not because of them.

A) How many of those who say 'nuke em' here on FR really mean it...i.e. would actually pull the trigger on Mecca if it was in their hand?

B) Of the small number who really would, how many would you say are actually Christians?

My guess would be that this whole question is for the most part a straw man, and that the answer to question 'B' is zero.

[Luis Gonzalez]

BTW, thanks for pinging me to this...

[Luis Gonzalez]

You don't know the answer to either question, but I'm wrong?

A) Read the thread, they are here telling you that they still believe it os the right thing to do.

B) How many non-Christians that you know of post in FR?

Your guessing is somehow more accurate than the facts slapping you in the face on this very thread?

[EternalVigilance]

There are aplenty of non-Christians posting on FR. Lots.

[EternalVigilance]

The stated position of the United States, and of the President, is that WMD=nukes. Hussein was warned in '91 and again this time that WMD=nukes.

Do you disagree with this policy?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Ask the ones on this very thread saying that they still favor nuking Mecca whether they consider themselves Christians or not.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Did we nuke Iraq?

[EternalVigilance]

Did they use WMD?

[Jhoffa_]

I thought you might be interested. Someone needed to say it, I just regret that it wasn't me.

I don't think there's going to be allot of conversions though. This hatred and distrust seems to be so deeply rooted that complex, multi-paragraph rationalizations still can't explain it satisfactorily.

A bunch of people just hate Muslims and would think nothing of oppressing peaceful American Muslims for their religious beliefs or "nuking" their holy sites in retalliation for any act deemed to be "Muslim" in nature.

It's really shocking when you contrast the pictures we saw today with course of action suggested by some of our fellow FReepers.

It's indeed a "Daschle Day" for many, I think.

[dbehsman]

No offense, but it will take a long time before I trust the Muslim population again. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. I hope that I seriously misjudged the situation. It just seems to me that right after we do something nice for the Arabs/Muslims, the very next day they'll be out in the streets hollering "Death to America" and crap like that. It seems to me some days that all the Muslims are really determined to be pains in the neck, and nothing else.
Look at Kuwait. After we freed them from Hussain and lost some of our people there, after we spent money and time guarantying their security, they turned out against operation "Iraqi Freedom".

Look at the palistinians. We could have let Israel handle the palistinan problem. We could have let Israel wipe them out or boot them all out at any time in the past. But we didn't. We felt sorry for the little trespassing palistinian (in reality they're Jordanians, but don't try to tell them that) rats. And what did we get for that? "Death to America" rallys, American flags being burned, and the rats cheering at the Sept. 11 attacks.

Oh, I know. I'll state the obvious. I'm sure that there are some of the 1.6 billion Muslims out there who don't hate us. I just don't see a sizable amount of them helping us in the war on terrorism. It just seems to me that the vast majority of the Muslims are always on the constant lookout for a new reason to hate America. It seems like they never cut us any slack. They never give us the benifit of the doubt. Look at "Operation Infinate Justice" (war on the taliban in Afghanistan). The Muslims freaked out. "Only Allah can provide infinate justice, you infidel, imperalistic yankee American pig dogs!" They hollered. Out of politness, we changed the name to "Operation Enduring Freedom".

Our soldiers over there cannot have any booze. Not even a beer. They can't have a marshmellow, because it may contain some pork, and that would offend the delicate sensabilities of the primitive screwheads! We purposely leave Mosques alone, even when the Mosque may be used for hiding weapons or soldiers, because it would offend the Muslims. You just wait. One month from now, I'll bet the Iraqi's will be taking to the streets burning American flags and hollering "Death to America". It'll probably be over something stupid, like an Iraqi saw an American blow his nose in front of a Mosque on a holy day, or some crap like that. I hope I'm wrong about this, but I fear that I'm not.

[Luis Gonzalez]

No, I don't support the use of nukes, they kill indiscriminately. Nukes and Christians alike in Iraq would have died because of the actions of a madman.

Which is the very reason why I opposed the "Nuke Mecca" crowd in FR.

I also do not believe that President Bush would have used a nuke, even in the face of a chemical attack.

There is a marked difference between George W. Bush and Saddam Hussein.

The latter believes God is on his side, while the former prays to be on God's side.

[EternalVigilance]

Actually, everything I have seen would suggest that the Kuwaitis are very supportive of the liberation of Iraq.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Nukes and Christians alike in Iraq would have died because of the actions of a madman."

Muslims and Christians alike would have died...

[EternalVigilance]

So you believe we should not use nukes under any circumstance...I see.

How about if a WMD was used on Miami; killing every man, woman and child; and it was determined that the government of Syria was the source? Would you be against leveling Damascus to the ground?

[EternalVigilance]

I also do not believe that President Bush would have used a nuke, even in the face of a chemical attack.

By the way, you can state your belief all you want, but that is not the stated policy position of this President or his administration. Quite the contrary.