My Kid wants a gun...

Home | 3/3/03 | Patton

[patton]

Ok, my son is ready to upgrade from his .22 (the one my dad gave me).

His requirements are 1000m accuracy, cheap ammo.

Our deal is I buy the hardware, he buys the optics.

1000$ limit ($800 rifle, $200 optics).

Ideas?

[TheBattman]

About those new Remingtons - that lock on the bolt sucks! I have heard lots of complaints. I believe Brownell's sells a replacement for it, though -

Nothing like fiddling with keys to unlock your bolt to load/fire your gun...

[Shooter 2.5]

Thanks for the ping.

I would have missed this one.

[templar]

I remember thinking how much fun it would be to have a 22-250 and a farmers permission to rid him of the pests.

About an hour or so drive north of Denver is the Pawnee grasslands (along the Colorado Wyoming border). You can shoot 1000 meter (or a mile if you want) distances out there. Lots of prarie dogs there too. The animal rights bunch wants to end shooting the pests and I'm not sure you can still shoot them there, but I know you still could a few years ago. I'll have to check into the current regulations on the grasslands, let me know if you come this way again and I'll get the rundown for you.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Okay, start with a Czech VZ-24 8mm Mauser ($90). Take off the stock, barrel and trigger. Get an Adams and Bennet heavy barrel (F54) and a Corelite stock pre-molded to the correct contour ($220 on sale at Midwayusa.com). Now get a low swing safety, and a Timney and Bold adjustable trigger (abour $40 each). Don't forget scope mounts ($15).

Now you can either put it all together and headspace it (You will also need a Mauser action wrench ($45) and barrel vise ($30)) or have someone else do it ($250 or so).

Alternately, the Savage Model 110 is supposed to shoot really well right out of the box (and only about $400). Put a hundred in for a trigger job and you have a really decent rifle.

Now for ammo. You can have cheap or you can have 1000 yard accurate, but not both. The best balance is handloaded 308 Winchester which will be really good out to 800 yards or so. But if you are going handloads, may as well go with a 300 Winchester short mag.

As for scopes, I'm sorry to tell you but you won't be happy with a $200 scope at 1000 yards. I would spend the balance of the money on a Leupold scope ($500 or so). (Read up on what you want and watch ebay.)

[Shooter 2.5]

Check the CMP website at odcmp.com and find a high power match near you. Even if you don't join, you will find a lot of people there with great advice. Oh, and prepared for those thousand yard shots with this:

www.shooterready.com

[templar]

I knew a guy that shot one with a 50 cal barrett. Said he wasn't sure if he actually hit it or not, there just wasn't anything left but a hole in the ground where it was, and a bit of fur.

[yarddog]

The very early Savages, such as the model 99's were fine guns. The 110 was designed to be cheaply made and still be a good gun. The design was successful as it is relatively inexpensive to make without compromising quality.

Both of mine were bought in the early to mid 80's and were perfectly good guns but not particularly accurate or well made. I also bought a Stevens (made by Savage) crack shot during the 80's which was a reproduction of their original and this was possbily the worst shooting gun I ever owned as far as accuracy. It is a shame because it was a neat design otherwise.

I think Savage had some real quality control problems during this time, and if memory serves also labor problems.

I am going on memory but I think a Canadian company bought them a few years ago and although I haven't owned one since, they definitely look better. I was looking at a new crackshot a few weeks ago, and it looked about a thousand times better than the one I owned, unfortunately the price was also much higher.

[cavtrooper21]

: ) (grin)

[Shooter 2.5]

Can't believe this didn't make the bang list before this. I didn't even check. Oops.

[templar]

The mauser's a good choice to build a high accuracy rifle, and the mods you describe are good. but the Mauser isn't a real good receiver to learn basic gunsmithing on. On a used Czech you're going to need to face the receiver ring and lap the bolt lugs for good accuracy. the bolt face will also need to be trued to the action. None of this is particularly hard, but you'll need a receiver mandrell and a lathe. The adams and bennett barrel is actually a fairly good barrel, but the shoulder will need to be set for your particular receiver if you want to get the maximum accuracy, and will absolutely have to be reset after(if) you true up the front reciever ring face. Lapping the bolts lugs is a touchy thing since Mauser receivers are case hardened and you can cut right through the hard part if you're not really carefull, and that leaves a dangerous rifle after a number of shots beat the reciever lugs faces back.

Truing the bolt face is no big deal and you can either buy or easily make a simple tool for that. but it will change the headspace, so you need to do it before headspacing (and do it with a great deal of conservatism, don't remove much metal). The bolt handle will need modification too if you plan to use it with a scope. It can either be cut off and a new one welded on (I usually cheat and use hard silver solder, it's almost undetectable if done well and keeps the heat down), or it can be heated and forged. the potential problem here is the cocking threads on the inside of the bolt next to the handle root. If you get them too hot they will soften and you end up with rapid wear and a poor sort of sticky feel when opening the bolt. A heat sink and heat paste is an absolute essential. I like both the timney and bold triggers, if you get one with a safety you don't need to worry about a low swing shroud safety. The low swing safeties I have used also require machining the cocking piece (again not hard, but another step to learn, and it has to be done right).

The corelite stock is a good stock. It comes sith instructions for bedding and I reccomend doing it as directed. Use Brownells Steel bed. I like to make a closely fitted steel pillar for the rear screw and set it in the stock with epoxy. Not hard, but you need a lathe to do it, and it probably isn't nescessary anyway. I just like the more solid lockup of the rear action screw.

The savage is much easier to begin learning gunsmithing and accurizing on. And much easier to avoid fatal errors. You can buy prechambered barrels and there is no need for anything other than a nut wrench and headspace gauge to headspace it yourself. Triggers are available and stock ones can be modified, but with great care and carefull safety checks.

[cavtrooper21]

You know, I guess that I just take for granted all the steps that go into making a old surplus mauser into a shooter. Wasn't till you listed them down that I realized that I do spend a good deal of time on those guns... Maybe off the shelf isn't such a bad idea for most people... Maybe I should think more and type less. : )

[TheBattman]

Not sure, but I would certainly like to find out....

[patton]

Thank you very much for your help.

Ryan wants to go with a Savage 308 - fine by me. Retail looks like 675.00 - so he has 325 for optics.

Ideas?

[spunkets]

A Leupold VX-II, 3x9 50mm is about $325. It's a solid and stable scope. 9X fine for the range of the 308 and 3X is good for close shooting. 50mm is excellent for low light.

[Squantos]

Used Remington 700 with a new shilen no contour barrel in .308 . Get a McMillian phenolic stock with the aluminum bedding block. The glass I'd suggest if the poor kids old man would share some of his snow plowing money would be a 10X Leaupold Ultra. That aside ;o) I suggest either a fixed 10X Burris w/ mildots or 10X Shepard with their propriatary reticle.

Good basic sod poodle/ coyote rig at 1000 meters for the Panhandle anyway !

Stay Safe !

[donmeaker]

I have a new Savage .308 Scout with burris scope. It shoots better than I do. It is so frustrating that my old eyes can barely see out to 100 yards any more, even with a 2X scope. I figure the wild boars won't care.

[Travis McGee]

A new Savage in .308, and more $ in the optics.

[Travis McGee]

I love it, great thread idea: the best under $1,000 long range bolt gun! Classic!

[Travis McGee]

Savage .308 is looking like candidate #1... And we can spend the rest on optics...

Total agreement.

[dd5339]

Ok, I've got to wade in now....

How about checking out the Swede model 96 Mauser in 6.5*55. The bullet and case combo just seems to be at the right point to give incredible accuracy at all ranges and is still relatively mild to shoot.

The surplus Swedes are running anywhere from $200 to $1200 for a surplus sniper with matching scope, (Samco Global).

Personally, I'm still chewing around the idea of building up a rifle around a 6.5*300 SAUM wildcat. With 1 1/2 kidlets though it will be a long time before the free cash is available though. For now I'll just have to content myself with a $420 SIG SHR 970 in 30-06 with a $99 Simmons Whitetail Classic that will shoot five shot groups @ 0.33" at 100 yards from a good bench with good reloads.

Semper Fi