is the .223 a typical 'sniper' round?

[RichardEdward]

i would have thought the .223 is a little 'light' for a tpical snipe round.. thought most military/etc snipers used a .308 or more powerful round.. or .. if they were going for quiet.. would =use a subsonic .22 lr

as for the al crapa 'link'..I think there is no link.... afterall, wouldnt they be using eastern block type caliber? since that is what they train with???

anyone have any more info on this?

[Texas_Jarhead]

STA?

[templar]

My guess is the A-hole that is doing the carnage is a disturbed little wimp and is using this caliber because it shoots straight, has a small report, and doesn't kick much.

Probably so. The cartridge also has a following among those trained in the military over the past few decades (rifle training, not sniper training). Or, maybe he got his training from one of the organizations that use .223 as a sniper round?

[DoughtyOne]

I wouldn't dispute the 150 yard comments you're making. You do mention 250-300 yards. And you do mention your own loads being superior to off the shelf loads. Do you feel that off the shelf loads would be accurate for 250-300 yards?

[Lurker]

See post 57.

Oh, and I bet you could shoot it again if you had too....

Regards,

L

[x1stcav]

It's not a design feature but a relatively poor ballistic coefficient. By way of analogy, an arrow has a pretty good ballistic coefficient and penetrates straight and deep.

[Texas_Jarhead]

"Ive heard somewhere that the .223 FMJ [5.56 NATO] was designed to tumble when it hits, going into the body like a saw - particularly nasty exit wounds."

This is true.

[Carry_Okie]

A .223 crimped into a 30-06 shell with a sabot comes out at 4,100 fps. It probably makes a dandy sniper round because there are no rifling marks on the bullet and the trajectory is so flat.

Not that I know what I'm talking about as far as sniping is concerned, but I was looking into the sabots as a way to shoot .223 at coyotes with my 30-06. I think I'll go get a mini-14 instead. :-)

[cayuga]

A Thompson Contender single shot pistol in .223 caliber can be a very accurate weapon. With a scope, it is still small enough to be concealable yet accurate enough to do what this maniac is doing. Carrying around a mini 14 or an AR15 is not the smart thing to do.

I agree 100%. That's my weapon of choice for this kind of shooting. A 223 is enough gun for human targets at urban ranges, and a Contender with a 10" scoped barrel is accurate enough for the job. Another thread noted a witness to the latest shooting commenting on how loud the report was. That sounds about right for a rifle cartridge in a pistol length barrel. Any IHMSA shooter knows this.

[RLK]

The tumbling of 223 was an effort to skirt the Geneva convention against dum dums. Most rifle calibers can be purchassed in forms that will damned near explode on impact. However, these forms are not allowed in military weapons according to the conventions.

[Texas_Jarhead]

nevermind

[yarddog]

My Father worked for 30 years at Eglin AFB where some of the very first testing of the M16 was done. He talked quite a few times with some of the ballistics experts who were developing the new rounds. Some of these people also did the first tests which resulted in the adoption of the Berretta.

The .223 used a boattail bullet because it gives better ballistics than other shapes. I think it was just a coincidence that the same type bullet is bascially unstable and tends to tumble when it strikes something. The most stable shape would be one which was hollow at both ends but this would have very poor long range ballistics.

I can't say for certain that the tumbling was not an added bonus but that is what I have heard from those who should know.

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the comments. Interesting.

[LonePalm]

No, I would not classify a .223 caliber as a sniper weapon. It is quite accurate at 100m with an iron sight and 200-400m with a 4x scope.

The .223 (NATO 5.56mm)(M-16/AR-15), among others, is a common infantry weapon. The most common load in the US is a 55gr (M193) bullet while NATO uses a 62gr bullet. Bullets up to 75gr are readily available but cost more. The major benefit of the AR-15 is that it breaks down into smaller sub-assemblies and is easier to hide.

Compare this to a .308 (NATO 7.62mm)(M-14/M1A1/AR-10), among others, with a 168gr bullet that is accurate to 1000m with a 10x scope. It is flat out deadly at 400-600m.

At the ranges discussed, I would consider this person a shooter and NOT a sniper. Personally, I would go with the .308 and shoot at a much longer range. It has a flatter trajectory and much greater impact energy. You can drop a large elk at 400m with no problem. This guy seems to be plinking away at about 100m.

Hope this helps.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Jamais reculez á tyrannie un pouce!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! Never give an inch to tyranny!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[Lurker]

I'm sorry, did you need something?

L

[Sam Cree]

"That's why they appear to be stupid when they speak on certain subjects"

I think they appear to be stupid when they speak on all subjects.

I own a .223 rifle, I consider it to be quite accurate, though I can't see the dot on a 100 yd target anymore without a scope (it doesn't have one). But I think my scoped Remington 700 .270 would be a better "sniper" rifle.

[Texas_Jarhead]

nope

[tall_tex]

A plastic soda pop bottle, and even a condum, works as a silencer. Saw that in a movie recently, tried it out on the range the other day, with my Remingingon, 742 auto, 243, I just got a whisper on the plastic pop bottle, a whoosh, with the condum, have not tried it on th 06, but I will.

[RichardEdward]

anything is possible.. heck, they just had a story about an ex indiana state trooper that killed his family.. nother reason that guns should not be limited to just the police

[Shooter 2.5]

The x ring at 600 yards is six inches in diameter. The ten ring is 12 inches in diameter.
I was prone shooting on the 600 when this 16 year old girl shooting her personal AR with iron sights started to get excited and she kept saying:
Bang!
Oh, I got another 10!
Bang!
Oh, I got another 10!
Bang!
Oh, I got an X!
ETC.
ETC.
You get the idea.
This is with iron sights.

[dmcnash]

I cannot help but wonder why this idiot has only taken 1 shot, and not a number of shots.

Simple Answer is the shooter does not want to reveal his location. Shoot, move, classic sniper tactics. It's difficult to locate a shooter from a single report.