Posted on 10/11/2002 4:58:34 PM PDT by RichardEdward
i would have thought the .223 is a little 'light' for a tpical snipe round.. thought most military/etc snipers used a .308 or more powerful round.. or .. if they were going for quiet.. would =use a subsonic .22 lr
as for the al crapa 'link'..I think there is no link.... afterall, wouldnt they be using eastern block type caliber? since that is what they train with???
anyone have any more info on this?
First of all, no standard rifle cartridge, not even a 45/70 will plow through twigs, etc without being diverted.
The heavy .223 bullets are accurate out to very long ranges and also penetrate well. The light ones are, as some have pointed out, very devastating on thin skinned animals such as human beings.
Although the .308 is an excellent cartridge, is basically accurate and was used by U.S. snipers to great effect, there are much better rounds for long range shooting.
Lastly, it might just be luck but the shooter did in fact choose a very effective round for the type shooting he is doing.
Yes, all the NATO countries, except France, use the 5.56X54 for their service rifles.
However, Savage, Remington, New England Arms, Ruger and a few others manufacture excellent bolt-action or single shot rifles in this caliber.
The media in it's effort to help the anti-gun crowd is broadcasting the AR-15 or the Mini-14 as the likely rifle for this.
I cannot help but wonder why this idiot has only taken 1 shot, and not a number of shots. If he is using the AR or the Mini, he certainly has a number of rounds available. If this is the cas and it is a bolt or single-shot, the police are going to have a HUGE plate of crow to eat.
Oh, and one other thought. I was interviewed by a local TV station for an opinion about "ballistic profiling" that has come up around this sniper story. One of my comments was to the effect....."If someone with a licensed CCW were around at the time they might have been able to stop this guy, but that whole area of the country has outlawed personal protection. Go figure." This comment didn't make the broadcast.
if an organized operation, might not an indiscriminate 'white van' with seeming innocents, leaving the scene in a hurry, distract attention from the true flight path of the actual shooter?
Good suggestion.
You were talking about the MD shootings, I take it. VA allows CCW. Let's see how many more of his shots this guy takes in VA.
You are WRONG!!!!!!!!!
I've been shooting for many years and the .233 is accurate to about 250-300 yards tops. I've shot in proffesional varmint shoots and we employ the calibers of 22.250, 222,223,7mm, 8mm, 308, and many others. So I know of what I speak. I reload using the Dillon RL550B and find reloads to be far superior to factory loads in most instances. You may be able to stretch the shot out to maybe 350 yards. After that, the light weight (55 grains in most instances), is a detriment to accuracy due to wind and bullet drop. I can put a shot within a size of a quarter at 150 yards all day long using the .223.
The .233 is an excellent choice for the military because of the ability of soldiers to carry larger amounts of ammo so they are now using the M-16 as the standard battle rifle. Accuracy after 300 yards is a moot point. Most shots by the regular infantry is within the 300 yard range so the .223 is an excellent choice for our military.
You said ..."On TV last night the Media was talking about 4 mile shots, this is obviously a 50 cal. sniper rifle not a .223. "
I say...What the hell does the media know about anything? I don't trust the media and they don't know much. That's why they appear to be stupid when they speak on certain subjects. And on this point they are wrong.It was not a 4 mile shot. No-one can even see a person 4 miles away. 50 BMG is accurate to about 1200 yards on a good day. 350 to 500 grain bullet traveling at 3,500 fps makes a formidable weapon. If you or I were hit in the head with a 50 BMG, your head would be gone and you would'nt know what hit you.
wonder how the media will react when the 'sniper' turns out to be some nutcase kid of some liberal washingtonites... how will they spin it if an non pro can shoot so well???
Not really. I've shot .308 in pistol and found it to be quite comfortable. Shots with a pistol above about 50 yards usually requite quite a bit of practice though. If he's using pistol, he's quite a bit out of the ordidnary in his training.
Lots of folks are under the impression that there are only 2 or three types of firearms that could fire this round. In fact there are actually single shot handguns that could easisly (yes, easily) accomplish the kind of shooting being done.
Classic military sniping is usually done with heavier calibers, but what's going on here isn't classic military sniping in any sense of the word.
But, to answer what I think was the gist of your question, the .5.56mm round isn't usually chosen by persons who would consider themselves a military sniper. When I attended Quantico, I trained with a bolt action Remington chambered for the 7.62mm x 51 round. (That's also sold commercially as caliber .308) I was also trained to do long range shooting with an accurized M-14. That weapon also chambers the 7.62 x 51 cartridge.
Now, to address what I think was the second part of what you wanted to know, the 5.56mm (also sold commercially a caliber .223) is capable of remarkable accuracy at ranges well beyond 300 yards. For a while, .223 was a favorite among people who hunt prairie dogs routinely at ranges beyond 200 yards. FYI, a prairie dog is about the size of your average house cat.
Sorry to get long winded on you, but I'm getting real tired of people calling whoever is killing these people a 'sniper'. I was a 'sniper', and quite frankly hanging that moniker on the chunk or chunks of human debris who are committing these murders insults me.
L
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I last shot a 7mm magnum 40 years ago. It would burn through steel like a welding torch. It has a range that reads like phone numbers. My brick mason weighted about 250 pounds. It even hurt his shoulder to shoot one very many times. It will do anything you want it to do. I couldn't shoot one at this time of life.
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