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LoTR-The Two Towers: Book discussion (The Green Dragon Inn) III

Posted on 07/26/2002 11:29:06 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn

This is a chapter discussion of The Two Towers, volume two of the Lord of the Rings. It is a continuation of our discussion of Lord of the Rings that started with Fellowship of the Ring and finished a few weeks back. FoTR discussion thread.

We will cover one section of the book per week. Sometimes short, related chapters may be combined, and the process may evolve as we go to keep everybody happy! If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed. We should be a bit careful with topic and spoilers (especially if we are joined by some reading for the first time) but feel free to draw lines related to other events in the story. If you do misbehave too much you will be sent to Took's Corner. As always, if you want to chit-chat or share other news… I would probably be best to post that in The Hobbit Hole thread.

It is OK this time to share images from the Two Towers (that illustrate the current chapter of course!) They are fun snapshots that show our story coming to life. Use your head, we don't want to slow down the thread too much, but most of us love a few pics in the thread.

Every week I will ping you to the new chapter or section …. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will serve as the Thain of the list.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Besides, we Tolkien fans need something to keep us busy while we wait for the film to come out December 19. This thread will adjust the schedule as necessary to be finished before the film comes out!


TOPICS: Books/Literature; The Hobbit Hole
KEYWORDS: lordoftherings; lotr; thetwotowers; tolkien; ttt
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To: 2Jedismom
I was writing my apology before you even flamed me about the gash! hehehe
201 posted on 08/02/2002 6:46:38 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
Tricksy hobbit!
202 posted on 08/02/2002 6:49:37 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: All
OK -

To Pippin's surprise he found that much of the talk was intelligible many of the Orcs were using ordinary language. Apparently the members of two or three quite different tribes were present, and they could not understand one another's orc-speech. There was an angry debate concerning what they were to do now: which way they were to take and what should be done with the prisoners.

'There's no time to kill them properly,' said one. 'No time for play on this trip.'

'That can't be helped,' said another. 'But why not kill them quick, kill them now? They're a cursed nuisance, and we're in a hurry. Evening's coming on, and we ought to get a move on.'

'Orders.' said a third voice in a deep growl. 'Kill all but NOT the Halfings; they are to be brought back ALIVE as quickly as possible. That's my orders.'

'What are they wanted for?' asked several voices. 'Why alive? Do they give good sport?'

'No! I heard that one of them has got something, something that's wanted for the War, some elvish plot or other. Anyway they'll both be questioned.'

'Is that all you know? Why don't we search them and find out? We might find something that we could use ourselves.'

'That is a very interesting remark,' sneered a voice, softer than the others but more evil. 'I may have to report that. The prisoners are NOT to be searched or plundered: those are my orders.'

'And mine too,' said the deep voice. 'Alive and as captured; no spoiling. That's my orders.'

'Not our orders!' said one of the earlier voices. 'We have come all the way from the Mines to kill, and avenge our folk. I wish to kill, and then go back north.'

'Then you can wish again,' said the growling voice. 'I am Uglúk. I command. I return to Isengard by the shortest road.'

'Is Saruman the master or the Great Eye?' said the evil voice. 'We should go back at once to Lugbúrz.'

'If we could cross the Great River, we might,' said another voice. 'But there are not enough of us to venture down to the bridges.'

'I came across,' said the evil voice. 'A winged Nazgûl awaits us northward on the east-bank.'

'Maybe, maybe! Then you'll fly off with our prisoners, and get all the pay and praise in Lugbúrz, and leave us to foot it as best we can through the Horse-country. No, we must stick together. These lands are dangerous: full of foul rebels and brigands.'

'Aye, we must stick together,' growled Uglúk. 'I don't trust you little swine. You've no guts outside your own sties. But for us you'd all have run away. We are the fighting Uruk-hai! We slew the great warrior. We took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White Hand: the Hand that gives us man's-flesh to eat. We came out of Isengard, and led you here, and we shall lead you back by the way we choose. I am Uglúk. I have spoken.'

'You have spoken more than enough, Uglúk,' sneered the evil voice. 'I wonder how they would like it in Lugbúrz. They might think that Uglúk's shoulders needed relieving of a swollen head. They might ask where his strange ideas came from. Did they come from Saruman, perhaps? Who does he think he is, setting up on his own with his filthy white badges? They might agree with me, with Grishnákh their trusted messenger; and I Grishnákh say this: Saruman is a fool. and a dirty treacherous fool. But the Great Eye is on him.


203 posted on 08/02/2002 6:53:01 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: 2Jedismom
Well, if you can find the picture with the gash... then post it! At least I won't tell you I can't see what you are talking about.
204 posted on 08/02/2002 6:55:29 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
So...is this a joint Isengard Mordor venture or did the two Orc parties just show up at the same time?
205 posted on 08/02/2002 7:02:50 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: 2Jedismom
A shadow bent over Pippin. It was Uglúk. 'Sit up!' said the Orc. 'My lads are tired of lugging you about. We have got to climb down and you must use your legs. Be helpful now. No crying out, no trying to escape. We have ways of paying for tricks that you won't like, though they won't spoil your usefulness for the Master.'

He cut the thongs round Pippin's legs and ankles, picked him up by his hair and stood him on his feet. Pippin fell down, and Uglúk dragged him up by his hair again. Several Orcs laughed. Uglúk thrust a flask between his teeth and poured some burning liquid down his throat: he felt a hot fierce glow flow through him. The pain in his legs and ankles vanished. He could stand.

'Now for the other!' said Uglúk. Pippin saw him go to Merry, who was lying close by, and kick him. Merry groaned. Seizing him roughly Uglúk pulled him into a sitting position, and tore the bandage off his head. Then he smeared the wound with some dark stuff out of a small wooden box. Merry cried out and struggled wildly.

The Orcs clapped and hooted. 'Can't take his medicine,' they jeered. 'Doesn't know what's good for him. Ai! We shall have some fun later.'

But at the moment Uglúk was not engaged in sport. He needed speed and had to humour unwilling followers. He was healing Merry in orc-fashion; and his treatment worked swiftly. When he had forced a drink from his flask down the hobbit's throat, cut his leg-bonds, and dragged him to his feet, Merry stood up, looking pale but grim and defiant, and very much alive. The gash in his forehead gave him no more trouble, but he bore a brown scar to the end of his days.

'Hullo, Pippin!' he said. 'So you've come on this little expedition, too? Where do we get bed and breakfast?'

'Now then!' said Uglúk. 'None of that! Hold your tongues. No talk to one another. Any trouble will be reported at the other end, and He'll know how to pay you. You'll get bed and breakfast all right: more than you can stomach.'

206 posted on 08/02/2002 7:06:58 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Overtaxed
So...is this a joint Isengard Mordor venture or did the two Orc parties just show up at the same time?

I dunno OT! - Do we know? Are we told? What do you think?

207 posted on 08/02/2002 7:09:31 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
The gash in his forehead gave him no more trouble, but he bore a brown scar to the end of his days.

One of the few things that I remember about my very first reading 20 some-odd years ago is how encouraged I felt after reading this sentence.

208 posted on 08/02/2002 7:15:14 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: HairOfTheDog
Dunno, let me think about it. We have orcs coming all the way from Isengard, Moria orc who tracked the Fellowship from the Mines (did they just meet the Isengard orcs on the way, or did they go crying to Saruman?) and Mordor orcs with Black Riders...er Flyers waiting on the other side of the river.

Wonder if Merry and Pippin felt any relief that the Isengard orcs won the argument over the Mordor and Moria orcs.
209 posted on 08/02/2002 7:19:55 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: HairOfTheDog
We are the fighting Uruk-hai!

That would be a great name for a football team...

210 posted on 08/02/2002 7:21:39 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: 2Jedismom
But then...it never says how soon his days would end.
211 posted on 08/02/2002 7:23:40 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: HairOfTheDog
And it's still pretty comforting, even to this day. The reading is pretty bleak at this point. The three hunters just lost their horses. Who knows how Frodo and Sam are? It's nice to hear that someone is going to have something till the end of their days...kinda gives you the impression that they are going to have a few more, at least. . .
212 posted on 08/02/2002 7:23:49 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: HairOfTheDog
Just a nuisance: a passenger, a piece of luggage. And now I have been stolen and I am just a piece of luggage for the Orcs. I hope Strider or someone will come and claim us!

Huh... so Hobbits are familiar with the idea of checked luggage.

Speaking of all the different Orc groups... it's always confused me, whether the Moria Orcs were working for someone (either Saruman, Sauron, or whoever was in charge of Dol Guldur) or whether they were completely independent. Does anyone know the answer to that?

213 posted on 08/02/2002 7:47:44 AM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Does anyone know the answer to that?

Not really. But from what the Moria orcs say, it sounds like they're out for revenge.

I'm beginning to think that the different orc groups more or less showed up at the same time. At first I thought maybe Sauron might have ...ahem...requested orcs from Saruman. But if he used his orcs alone there wouldn't be any arguments from other orcs (besides...Mordor is closer to the river than Isengard....why bring a potential rival all the way across horse country?)

214 posted on 08/02/2002 7:57:23 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: HairOfTheDog
Ooooh...more cool pics...Good Morning!

Unfortunately, I only get to look at the pics and not read your new chapter post -- alas, I have to go to work all day :(

However, first order of business tonight will be to read it. And check out everyone's comments.

215 posted on 08/02/2002 8:04:55 AM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Wordsmith
Thanks, TTT has now got a place of honor in my briefcase. Going to be a little hard to carry the whole trilogy with me, so I'll consult the other volumes in the evening! Won't be posting much more today, but should be around tomorrow.

LOTR is available in ebook formats for Windows and Palm. I carry LOTR and other Tolkien works in my Palm m505, for inspiration when needed.

216 posted on 08/02/2002 8:15:37 AM PDT by 300winmag
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To: 300winmag; Scott from the Left Coast; Overtaxed; Bear_in_RoseBear; 2Jedismom; Corin Stormhands
Hello all... I am having technical difficulties with my cable internet connection... I managed to dust off my dial-up account and do this little test... I am getting a screaming 21.5 kbps!

I am on hold now with my ISP, hope to be back up to "speed" and back online to chat, very soon!
217 posted on 08/02/2002 8:31:37 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
First Penny, LCS, and now you? There must be some will that sets ans unsen barrier before us.... :)
218 posted on 08/02/2002 8:41:35 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
Doh! "an unseen barrier!"
219 posted on 08/02/2002 8:42:18 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: HairOfTheDog
I am getting a screaming 21.5 kbps

Welcome to my world!

Hope you get your technical difficulties resolved quickly!

220 posted on 08/02/2002 8:44:41 AM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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