LoTR-The Two Towers: Book discussion (The Green Dragon Inn) III

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn

This is a chapter discussion of The Two Towers, volume two of the Lord of the Rings. It is a continuation of our discussion of Lord of the Rings that started with Fellowship of the Ring and finished a few weeks back. FoTR discussion thread.

We will cover one section of the book per week. Sometimes short, related chapters may be combined, and the process may evolve as we go to keep everybody happy! If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed. We should be a bit careful with topic and spoilers (especially if we are joined by some reading for the first time) but feel free to draw lines related to other events in the story. If you do misbehave too much you will be sent to Took's Corner. As always, if you want to chit-chat or share other news… I would probably be best to post that in The Hobbit Hole thread.

It is OK this time to share images from the Two Towers (that illustrate the current chapter of course!) They are fun snapshots that show our story coming to life. Use your head, we don't want to slow down the thread too much, but most of us love a few pics in the thread.

Every week I will ping you to the new chapter or section …. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will serve as the Thain of the list.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Besides, we Tolkien fans need something to keep us busy while we wait for the film to come out December 19. This thread will adjust the schedule as necessary to be finished before the film comes out!

[ksen]

Truly the "greatest book of the 20th century!"

Heh heh.

Hi Wordsmith, good to see you again. ;^)

[LinnieBeth]

Give me your thoughts!

Umm, I vote for keeping Fanghorn and Treebeard to it's own rendering. Just love them Ents!

BTW, are any pics out there of Treebeard, Quickbeam etal?

[LinnieBeth]

There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark...

That is a GREAT quote. For all people of God, it IS necessary sometimes to 'get out of the boat--only then to discover that you can walk on water' or walk in a fiery furnace. But, just as necessary to stand for right/good even though that might bring your own death (Think Stephen)

In Freeper terms, we might call this "fighting City Hall" ; important to stand for convictions though winning is not certain.

However, don't you think that Aragorn was privy to more than he lets on? To me Aragorn is a type of Moses-
God's epithat for Moses was that he..."is the most humble man..." Humble not as in 'milktoast', but humble in his placement with God, secure in his mission, submitted to God so well that he could lead millions of his rebellious people, maintaining strength of direction and commitment. It was the example of Moses (a man secure enough to contend with God for mercy; put down all the disputes and cabals against him; yet have God declare him 'humble'.

Don't you see that same humility in Aragorn?

[HairOfTheDog]

They are holding Treebeard images very close. Nothing is sneaking out! Did you know that John Rhys-Davies (Gimli) is doing Treebeard's voice?

There is only one brief image of Treebeard that has been flashed before us... Pippin clinging to a tree and it blinks. Was in the Preview that was tagged on to the end of FoTR in May. An audience camera bootleg movie of that preview is available for download here. (The preview is the second one down on that list (LoTR2.zip).

Here are Screen caps from a Japanese version of the sequence posted at TORN. You have to see it in motion to get the effect... Pippin clings to the tree, turns around and notices that the tree just blinked! [chuckle chuckle]

Bad LinnieBeth... making me jump ahead like that! - I am weak!

[LinnieBeth]

At first I thought it was Saruman, but I now believe it was Gandalf-- not fully regenerated-or cloaked as he was when he first appears to Merry & Pippin. But, it was "The Horses! The Horses! that now convince me it was Gandalf and Shadowfax that visited. Preventing them from hurrying on in their quest- and possibly hurrying right past Fanghorn and on to Edoras. Remember Shadowfax's ability to call other horses to himself?

Also, Aragorn's observation:... 'But I marked also that this old man had a hat not a hood. He goes on to a quasi agreement that it might be Saruman, but I think his first reaction was correct.

[LinnieBeth]

They are holding Treebeard images very close

Ha! yes, they are painfully missing. I did see the brief sequence you are talking about. But I am dying to see the Trees.

We must both be on here at the same time, Hiya Hair. That bootleg version, do you know the format for that? Is it a Preview or the film? You know, I had never read these books before last Dec. I am in love with them! And, so many of these Posters have such good comments. Just love this thread.

[HairOfTheDog]

A comparison of Aragorn to Moses works for me at the moment! - yes, there are a lot of similarities!

And, not contrary to that, but interesting to me, when I said "Aragorn is starting to talk like a king" I meant that he is starting to acknowledge that there will be inevitable losses in any fight.

Up to know he has been full of self-doubt over the losses... The losses meant he had failed as a leader. Always prepared to give his own life, he felt tremendous guilt and self doubt that his decisions had led to the loss of others. I don't so much think that Aragorn knows more than he is letting on, but rather he has come to the realization that even the wise make choices that will lead to loss, and yet still be wise.

[Overtaxed]

A comparison of Aragorn to Moses works for me at the moment!

Funny....I never thought of Charleton Heston playing Aragorn. Okay, okay....I'm off to the Corner!

[HairOfTheDog]

Don't know what you mean by "is it a preview or the film" It is a Quicktime film of the preview... runs about 4 minutes, filmed through a home camera sitting in the audience. The color suffers from that, and it blinks, but it nevertheless takes my breath away when I watch it! It came out pretty good despite the method, if you ask me!

[LinnieBeth]

Yes, we might call this 'growing in the job'. Remember that at the confrontation with Eomer, both Gimli and Legolas were amazed at the change they saw in Aragorn- - Legolas even thinking that he saw a crown of light on Aragorn's brow.

Perhaps as he shoulders the responsibility of leadership and makes these decisions, he is truly growing into his Kingship.

Also, I'm not sure that he's given up on finding M&P, he reminded Eomer that he had nearly past by them- and their Elven cloaks, that perhaps they may not have seen the Hobbits, also garbed in Elven cloaks. Not sure, but perhaps his own reminder to Eomer gave him hope also???

[Corin Stormhands]

Funny....I never thought of Charleton Heston playing Aragorn.

Maybe we're glad they didn't make this movie in the sixties...

[Scott from the Left Coast]

I think Treebeard (the Ents as a whole, I guess) deserves his own week. He's the oldest of all creatures in M-E after all, and he's the real hero of the war with Saruman.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

I disagree a tad with Hair on this one: I do think Aragorn knows much more than he is letting on to his companions at this point. He knows that he is the one who is to claim the Kingship (he doesn't know the exact sequence of events to get there, but there is no doubt in his mind that he is the ONE).

Aragorn also has a long past by this time, which includes many battles where he has lost compatriots. I think his doubt at this point still relates to the decision he made not to follow Frodo and to what should be his next move after he sees the carnage of the Orcs at the hand of the Rohirrim -- and the apparent escape of Merry and Pippin into Fangorn. He doesn't know where he is to turn next, and Gandalf shows up when needed most to direct him on his next step in this affair. I don't think his agonizing over the dangers/potential loss of Merry and Pippin come from not having experience in others making sacrifices -- I think he does still view them as somewhat defenseless innocents at this point and he does still feel responsibility to his "friends" -- but for the most part I think his agonizing comes from indecision on what is the proper step for him to take right now, where will he do the most good and what will lead to the proper end.

It's lack of sure knowledge of the future course that troubles him -- for though he knows much (he knows the end he is looking toward) he doesn't know everything and like all good leaders has need for sage advice.

Moses is an interesting parallel -- though I must say I'd never have thought of Aragorn in that manner. More like Joshua, I'd say.

[HairOfTheDog]

I disagree a tad with Hair on this one

Yeah - people are always doing that! Good morning Scott! New Chapter in a few minutes! It is all done!

[HairOfTheDog]

Green Dragon Ping!

Hullo friends! … Welcome to the Green Dragon!

The Two Towers

Topic for the week:
Chapter 3: The Uruk-Hai

Pippin lay in a dark and troubled dream: it seemed that he could hear his own small voice echoing in black tunnels, calling Frodo, Frodo! But instead of Frodo hundreds of hideous orc-faces grinned at him out of the shadows, hundreds of hideous arms grasped at him from every side. Where was Merry?

He woke. Cold air blew on his face. He was lying on his back. Evening was coming and the sky above was growing dim. He turned and found that the dream was little worse than the waking. His wrists, legs, and ankles were tied with cords. Beside him Merry lay, white-faced, with a dirty rag bound across his brows. All about them sat or stood a great company of Orcs.

Slowly in Pippin's aching head memory pieced itself together and became separated from dream-shadows. Of course: he and Merry had run off into the woods. What had come over them? Why had they dashed off like that, taking no notice of old Strider? They had run a long way shouting--he could not remember how far or how long; and then suddenly they had crashed right into a group of Orcs: they were standing listening, and they did not appear to see Merry and Pippin until they were almost in their arms. Then they yelled and dozens of other goblins had sprung out of the trees. Merry and he had drawn their swords, but the Orcs did not wish to fight, and had tried only to lay hold of them, even when Merry had cut off several of their arms and hands. Good old Merry!…

…'I suppose I was knocked on the head,' he said to himself. 'I wonder if poor Merry is much hurt. What has happened to Boromir? Why didn't the Orcs kill us? Where are we, and where are we going?'

More movie Pictures: Quintessentialwebsites – The Two Towers - Chapter III -The Uruk-hai

And here's a Map of where we are So we don't get lost!

OK! Hullo – Good Morning! That'll get us started! – I started out with excerpts showing the nearly unflappable nature of our hobbits despite their circumstances… Just to start out kind of lite… I have a feeling we will all be quoting orcs with ugly names and phlegmy speech soon enough!

And I decided to start us out with just one chapter this time, so lets see if it keeps us busy enough… if we cover it and want to move on, I can start the Treebeard chapter mid-week. We shall see how it goes!

Index to thread:
Chapter 1 and 2: The Departure of Boromir and The Riders of Rohan (Post #2)
Chapter 2 mid week bumper: The Riders of Rohan (Post #122)
Chapter 3: The Uruk-Hai

[2Jedismom]

Arrghh! You put the altered photo of Merry up!

[Overtaxed]

where are we going?'

Now where have I heard that before?

Okay...I'm headed back to the Corner

[HairOfTheDog]

Sorry for using the picture that does't show the gash over Merry's eye 2J.. I hope you forgive me... There aren't that many reliable postable pics available yet! Thank Goodness Quintessential is frequently updating now that Penny is on Hiatus!

[HairOfTheDog]

No I put that quote in on purpose! - I tempted you!

...Where are we, and where are we going?'

He could not answer the questions. He felt cold and sick. 'I wish Gandalf had never persuaded Elrond to let us come,' he thought. 'What good have I been? Just a nuisance: a passenger, a piece of luggage. And now I have been stolen and I am just a piece of luggage for the Orcs. I hope Strider or someone will come and claim us! But ought I to hope for it? Won't that throw out all the plans? I wish I could get free!'

[2Jedismom]

Oh, that's alright. It's only that the wound on Merry's head, for some reason is one of my most favorite parts of the story!

;-)