Posted on 07/26/2002 11:29:06 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
This is a chapter discussion of The Two Towers, volume two of the Lord of the Rings. It is a continuation of our discussion of Lord of the Rings that started with Fellowship of the Ring and finished a few weeks back. FoTR discussion thread.
We will cover one section of the book per week. Sometimes short, related chapters may be combined, and the process may evolve as we go to keep everybody happy! If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed. We should be a bit careful with topic and spoilers (especially if we are joined by some reading for the first time) but feel free to draw lines related to other events in the story. If you do misbehave too much you will be sent to Took's Corner. As always, if you want to chit-chat or share other news… I would probably be best to post that in The Hobbit Hole thread.
It is OK this time to share images from the Two Towers (that illustrate the current chapter of course!) They are fun snapshots that show our story coming to life. Use your head, we don't want to slow down the thread too much, but most of us love a few pics in the thread.
Every week I will ping you to the new chapter or section …. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will serve as the Thain of the list.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Besides, we Tolkien fans need something to keep us busy while we wait for the film to come out December 19. This thread will adjust the schedule as necessary to be finished before the film comes out!
I had a very close "friend" who used to be the freeper "Ward Smythe." He was killed in the religion wars. In his honor, I no longer go there...
Speaking of writing, I have been spending most of my time working on a serious fan fic, so my nose has been buried in the books verifying facts and calculating events.
I can't wait for TTT!! Those new pics drive me up the wall...I know Helms Deep is a major part of TTT, but I really hope the rumor has been debunked that it will take up 45 minutes...there's far too many other things going on to do that! Not unless they want to shove a lot of Merry and Pippin over into ROTK, which would really be sad...but I digress!
Ta for now...
best regards,
Alkhin
This picture for us epitomizes Middle Earth, the ethereal beauty and magic and bittersweet sadness as the Elves depart and consciously choose to go back to God and the blessed realms.
That after all these decades inner images so treasured have become viewable in this world is a miracle.
(Not on chapter really - only a small hint, I love it) And, since it was not available to us to post when we were leaving the Shire... I guess it is OK to bring it in now!
Thanks, TTT has now got a place of honor in my briefcase. Going to be a little hard to carry the whole trilogy with me, so I'll consult the other volumes in the evening! Won't be posting much more today, but should be around tomorrow.
My first few months of posting on FR were on the religion threads. Made several very nice Freep-friends, and a few enemies as well. Like you I've sworn off of the religion forum for now, and would venture to say that my relationships with God and brother are better for it! Christ Bless.
I think I saw you over there some. I was pinged back this morning because they were accusing me of posting under different names (I am not). I went back and blasted them and told them to leave me alone. You're right. My life is much better without them.
Saw several posts from others that were cold-cocked by some of the religious folks. Me too. But you see, I see a BIG difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'; too bad.
I love my fellowship with God, but not with the religious folk. Think Tolkien experienced the 'spiritual' side don't ya'll??
I believe that's correct and it has been added to the extended version.
I'm kinda non-committal here. In one sense I would agree that we could do both chapters, but then part of me thinks that Treebeard deserves a week of his own...
I'm also torn because I'll be gone from August 17-24 and I'd like to get back to Aragorn and company before I depart.
How's that for a squishy answer?
Say - Here's a thing I have found (I am finding myself distracted from work in my book for a bit - rats!)
Aragorn and his companions searched far and wide about the field of battle, but the light faded, and evening soon drew down, dim and misty. By nightfall they had discovered no trace of Merry and Pippin.'We can do no more,' said Gimli sadly. 'We have been set many riddles since we came to Tol Brandir, but this is the hardest to unravel. I would guess that the burned bones of the hobbits are now mingled with the Orcs'. It will be hard news for Frodo, if he lives to hear it; and hard too for the old hobbit who waits in Rivendell. Elrond was against their coming.'
'But Gandalf was not,' said Legolas.
'But Gandalf chose to come himself, and he was the first to be lost ' answered Gimli. 'His foresight failed him.'
'The counsel of Gandalf was not founded on foreknowledge of safety, for himself or for others,' said Aragorn. 'There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark...
The quote speaks to me, on the idea that wisdom is not always to take the safest route, and that (I see Istari as messengers from God) the wise may foresee trouble, and yet give counsel to walk into it regardless, for some higher purpose we may not yet understand, but they do. I would agree with Gimli, on believing Merry and Pippin to be dead; fallen victim to events so much bigger than themselves... They never should have been there, and the news would indeed come hard to Frodo and to Bilbo.
But Aragorn is starting to talk like a king.
And yet their being there is so important. They're important to the Fellowship. To think, the elves and the wizards and the men and the dwarfs can't solve the problem. So it comes to the meek little hobbits who really don't know what they're getting into. And what speaks loudest of all is that Samwise, Merry and Pippin (albeit quite naively) follow the quest out of loyalty to their master and friend.
Think of the scene in the movie where the Orcs are coming and Merry and Pippin realize that Frodo is leaving. They distract the Orcs, surely "knowing" that it means certain death. I think somewhere in there, all of the Fellowship comes to believe that none of them will return alive.
And to me, the strongest point in the movie comes at the end with "Don't you lose him Samwise Gamgee...and I don't intend to..."
Suddenly Gimli looked up, and there just on the edge of the fire-light stood an old bent man, leaning on a staff, and wrapped in a great cloak; his wide-brimmed hat was pulled down over his eyes. Gimli sprang up, too amazed for the moment to cry out, though at once the thought flashed into his mind that Saruman had caught them. Both Aragorn and Legolas, roused by his sudden movement, sat up and stared. The old man did not speak or make, sign.'Well, father, what can we do for you?' said Aragorn, leaping to his feet. 'Come and be warm, if you are cold!' He strode forward, but the old man was gone. There was no trace of him to be found near at hand, and they did not dare to wander far. The moon had set and the night was very dark.
Suddenly Legolas gave a cry. 'The horses! The horses!'
The horses were gone. They had dragged their pickets and disappeared. For me time the three companions stood still and silent, troubled by this new stroke of ill fortune. They were under the eaves of Fangorn, and endless leagues lay between them and the Men of Rohan, their only friends in this wide and dangerous land. As they stood, it seemed to them that they heard, far off in the night. the sound of horses whinnying and neighing. Then all was quiet again, except for the cold rustle of the wind.
'Well, they are gone,' said Aragorn at last. 'We cannot find them or catch them; so that if they do not return of their own will, we must do without. We started on our feet, and we have those still.'
'Feet!' said Gimli. 'But we cannot eat them as well as walk on them ' He threw some fuel on the fire and slumped down beside it.
'Only a few hours ago you were unwilling to sit on a horse of Rohan,' laughed Legolas. 'You will make a rider yet.'
'It seems unlikely that I shall have the chance,' said Gimli.
'If you wish to know what I think,' he began again after a while 'I think it was Saruman. Who else? Remember the words of Éomer: he walks about like an old man hooded and cloaked. Those were the words. He has gone off with our horses, or scared them away, and here we are. There is more trouble coming to us, mark my words!'
'I mark them,' said Aragorn. 'But I marked also that this old man had a hat not a hood. Still I do not doubt that you guess right, and that we are in peril here, by night or day. Yet in the meantime there is nothing that we can do but rest, while we may. I will watch for a while now, Gimli. I have more need of thought than of sleep.'
The night passed slowly. Legolas followed Aragorn, and Gimli followed Legolas, and their watches wore away. But nothing happened. The old man did not appear again, and the horses did not return.
And there our current chapter (2) ends... Leaving us wondering who that was... Who is Tolkien telling us it was? Who was it really? We don't know yet... and we really can't talk about it fully until chapter 5 without getting ahead of ourselves... but as we get there we should pay attention for more clues...
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