Posted on 04/08/2002 2:47:57 AM PDT by Abundy
Consider a man or woman, who knows they have never done anything illegal. Let’s call her Jane Doe. She answers the door one day and finds two police officers on her porch uninvited. They ask if they can come in to speak with her. She asks “why” and is politely told they would prefer to speak inside.
Answer the following questions with a yes or no answer.
1 – Is she doing something wrong if she says “no”?
2 – Is she doing something wrong if she says “do you have a warrant”?
3 – If she asks either of the previous questions does she have something to hide?
4 - If she asks question 1 and/or 2 is she a criminal?
Officer #1: "Ms. Doe?"
Jane Doe: "Yes, may I help you?"
Officer #1: "Ms. Doe, may we come in please?"
Jane Doe: "Why?"
Officer #1: "I would prefer it if we could speak to you inside please."
Jane Doe: "No you may not come inside. Not without a warrant."
Officer #1: "Very well ma'm. Your husband/son/daughter was just killed in an auto accident. Whenever it is convenient for you, you may go to the Coroner’s office to identify the remains. I'm sorry for your loss. Good-bye."
But like I said, I don't have an irrational distrust for the police.
Um ... in a lot of cases, they don't apply to anyone. The following articles list some examples.
Notify me on the porch. Sorry Hair, but I ain't signing up for a possible "pretext" entry where possibly corrupt LEOs will "see evidence of drugs in plain sight" (after they drop a small glasine vial of crack on the floor) leading to "probable cause" for a search where they will "find" more drugs, an illegal firearm part the size of a nail cliiper or something else on their way to a shakedown.
If you don't think that this happens, you have not been paying attention.
If it is really a genuine "next of kin" death notice visit, they should come with my priest or rabbi or at least my next door neighbor. Cops just showing up and "asking to be invited" inside is BS.
This is a pretext version of the "consent search" whereby armed cops "ask" to search your car, and if you do not "freely volunteer" you will spend the next 5 hours roadside minimum.
When always giving "consent" to armed police becomes virtually mandatory, the 4th amd means nothing and we are on our way to a police state. By NOT giving "consent" to every armed policeman who wants to give you a search, you are helping to preserve the 4th amd. By rolling over every time, you are helping to trash it.
If you think this is a typical operating practice of police, I would encourage you to step away from the television once in awhile.
Look, I refuse to give this post more thought that the guy who wrote the vanity. He has presented us with a person who has apparently never broken a single law (his facts) who has some policemen at her door asking to speak with her. Then he asks some inane questions, of which all of us know the answers are "NO".
But you have decided that cops sit around and choose to go to the homes of these complete innocents and spread evidence around the house. I don't know what things must be like where you live, where they have run out of real criminals and are planting "illegal firearm parts" in the homes of innocent housewives... But it sounds nice if you really have so little real crime to fight that they are that bored.
If your point is to tell us to be cautious, I am sure you could find a better bandwagon than this scenerio. I know of better examples of abuse than this one, and I don't go looking for them.
If it was something that they simply needed her help on, they would state so, and then ask to come in. Anytime the police want into your house without telling you why, it is a suspicious request that should not be honored.
You may even be a target of criminal activity, if those agents are not actually agents.
You not required or compelled in any way to allow a law enforcement agent into your home unless that agent has a warrant to enter.
2] NO
3] MAYBE
4] NO
Exactly.
See my last post. I am not naive to your point. But I also have a lot of friends that are cops, and believe it or not, their goal is not to torment the citizenry. And, the best advice for protecting myself against rogues, has come from them.
But the greater issue is the strength of the 4th amd. As I have stated, when "voluntary consent" becomes virtually mandatory, we don't have a 4th amd any more.
Already we see police road side stops stretching the "failure to give consent" into "probable cause to search" by the use of truly Orwellian logic: "he would not 'volunteer' for a search, ergo he must be hiding something so I will search him anyway".
This may not bother you, and you may truly wish to bend over for police proctological exams on demand, but I do not. If cops come to my front door and want to "be invited inside", they will need to give me a good reason on the porch.
The only way to correct such opinion /contempt of cop is for honest LEO/FLEAS to not put up with ciminal behavior or allow dishonesty among their ranks.............don't hold yer breath waiting for that to happen HOTdog.
Ya'll Stay Safe !
That is where you are wrong about me, it would bother me a lot. And stories like your links are precisely why I suggested finding a better bandwagon to jump on than this one. No true scenarios are as clean as this example, and the example is in my way because it is not a believable pretext to abuse by cop.
Vehicle searches strike me as much different than our innocent housewife here. I have been pulled over. I am at least suspected of something or I would not have been pulled over. I will act very differently. No way are they searching my car without a warrant. And, I have had nothing to fear so far. I have been legally armed during every police stop in the last 15 years. After calmly telling them so, I have never once even been asked where it was, let alone had my car searched looking for it.
I am dang lucky to not fit the profile of the people they hassle. I am white, female, and quickly approaching middle age. I know they hassle young black kids, and I yell louder at my TV than anyone when I see them throw kids down and search their cars with no probable cause. I also wince when they find something. Abuse is abuse, but the instincts of those cops is alos often correct. At the same time that I will fight to uphold my rights, I am not going to be the one to get in their way if they want my help finding out who broke in to the house across the street. Real life is murkier than this example.
Man has that rapport gone to Hell in a handbasket...even here in the South.
Welcome Back btw.
hehehehe
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