Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
They say the two publications will be the same except for the director's cut.
I would be very interested in how they bring Gollum to life.
You may want to take a look at the review I posted earlier today. The reviewer said that none of the special features on the August DVD will be on the November DVD.
That said, you'll probably be able to pick up August's DVD at a cut-rate price by then if that turns out to be the case.
Plus, I saw some the snippets for the extended cut. The gift giving was in there. All those who were afraid that Sam wouldn't get a rope - he does. And Gimli is properly in love with Galadriel.
Plus... there is a $10 rebate for the gift set. Use that against the huge discount of Amazon and you can get it very cheaply.
Today was the first day I saw a DVD in action... I have been missing out.
My answer:
Of course fantasy can point to Christ, there is nothing inherently diabolical about that particular genre.Lord of the Rings was not intended to be a distinctly Christian allegory like The Chronicles of Narnia. Although Lewis and Tolkien were friends, I have heard that Lewis' friendship with Tolkien was instrumental to his conversion to Christianity, I think they had two different motivations for writing the things they did.
Lewis' stories were written in, what seems to me, an Apologetical manner. He attempted to present the Gospel in a manner that would reach all sorts of different people. Reading Narnia you can't help but see Christ and the Gospel.
Tolkien, on the other hand, wrote with the great themes of Christianity in mind i.e. life, death, good, evil, friendship, love, hate. He may not have had storylines and characters that could be directly traced to the Bible, but they were there indirectly.
Just reading The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit will not give you a sense of the big picture that Tolkien has placed his characters in. To get that you need to read The Silmarillion. In that work you are told of the greater forces that are at work in LoTR. You have the one Creator God, his two classes of servants: the Valar, and the Maiar, the story of how the greatest of his servants desired to serve himself and rebelled against the Creator God, the creation of the world, the creation of Elves and Men. It is really quite fascinating. I could detect threads of thought in The Silmarillion that were distinctly patterned after what we, as Christians, believe.
I hope that helps. If you want, come ask your Tolkien questions over on The Hobbit Hole. There are people there that are much more knowledgeable about Tolkien than myself. ;^)
I just wanted to share this with you all so that I could get your feedback to see if I was way off base with my answer.
I'm actually working so I can pay off all that stuff I bought last weekend. :)
I think that's what made them believable.
Oh, man! I can't believe you said that! Just kidding. :)
Things are slowing down around here, half an hour to go, and I'm feeling a bit Tookish.
The NeverEnding Story post #21713.
I'm here too, but I'm distracted this afternoon...wonder why? ;-)
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