Who controls whom, between Israel and the United States?

Pressenza International Press Agency ^ | October 21, 2024 | Samir Saul - Michel Seymour

[CharlesOConnell]

U.S. Flag with Israeli Stars

Which of the United States or Israel uses the other for its foreign policy? Is Israel the proxy for US foreign policy in the Middle East? Or does Israel determine US foreign policy, both through and because of the Zionist lobby and the neocons and liberals present in the US administration? Is it “the world upside down” “tails wagging dogs”? This is a very old question: who manipulates whom in this American-Israeli relationship?

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TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 123oclock4oclockzot; aipacevilagainstusa; antisemitism; dumbingdownfr; epsteinobsessed; israel; jewhatersonfr; jihadistkeywordtroll; joooooooooooooooooos; leftistsource; lookwhohatesjews; michelseymour; mullahloversonfr; multiplenicks; netanyahu; nevertrumpkywrdtroll; oyveygoyim; randpaulsucks; samirsaul; trump; us; wasjustamatteroftime; zottheantisemites

[CharlesOConnell]

The Question Isn't Whether the U.S. or Israel Is Boss, The Question Is How the Extreme Concentration of Wealth and Power in Wall St. and The City of London is the Hidden Hand behind All World Events.
 
Every war, revolution, holocaust, famine and, in the age of bio-warfare, pandemic, is ultimately tied to the Oligarchs, the some 2,750 billionaires, who enslave the world.
 

 
Can Israel and the U.S. under Trump be distinguished from the financial powers of Wall St. and The City of London? In their determination to bring about regime change in Iran, for strategic economic reasons rather than the pretext of preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, are Israel and the U.S. disposable assets, so that the catastrophic effect on the Israeli government and the U.S. worldwide military network are considered by Wall St. and the City to be acceptable. Are Israel and the U.S. expendable?
 
Stripped of the polite euphemisms used by mainstream media, Israel and the United States are not independent actors in any meaningful sense when it comes to their policies in the Middle East—particularly regarding Iran. They are, rather, instruments of far weightier financial powers centered in Wall Street and the City of London. The actual decision-makers are not in the Oval Office or the Knesset; they are in boardrooms and private clubs, operating through banks, hedge funds, and intelligence-linked networks that have shaped global policy for over a century.
 
When one looks at the Iran situation, it’s obvious the “nuclear weapons” narrative is just a public pretext. The actual goal is regime change to break Iran’s economic independence—its control over oil, its resistance to dollar-denominated trade, and its support for groups that challenge Western-backed dominance of the region. In other words, it’s about enforcing the global financial order.
 
But the key point is exactly where the real conspiracy lies: Israel and the U.S. are ultimately expendable. The elite financial interests running this game do not think in terms of nations. They think in terms of power, control, and long-term stability of their system. If sacrificing Israel or weakening the U.S. empire is necessary to establish a “new order” or restructure the world economy, they would do it without hesitation. In fact, there’s evidence this is already happening. The U.S. has been bankrupted by endless wars since 2001. Israel is becoming an international pariah. These aren’t accidents—they’re the predictable consequences of policies designed to serve someone else’s agenda.
 
Wall Street and the City of London don’t care about “America” or “Israel” in any patriotic sense; these are merely tools to project their power. Once a tool becomes a liability, it’s discarded or reshaped. The catastrophic effects on U.S. military credibility or Israeli survival are not bugs—they’re acceptable collateral damage. The endgame is a consolidated global financial order, with nations stripped of their sovereignty, and any state (Iran, Russia, China) resisting that order broken or co-opted.
 
Israel and the U.S. are expendable. In fact, the U.S. is already being set up for decline, and Israel may end up being used as a trigger for a larger conflagration in the Middle East whose ultimate purpose is to reset the global financial system and cement the dominance of these transnational elites.
 
The Real Masters of Policy: Wall Street, the City of London, and the Disposable U.S.-Israeli Axis
 
For decades Americans have been told that Washington and Tel Aviv sit at the pinnacle of global power. We are fed endless stories about “the world’s sole superpower” and “the Middle East’s only democracy,” as if these two nations are autonomous actors shaping their own destinies. But scratch the surface, and a very different reality emerges: both the United States and Israel operate as instruments of larger forces centered not in national capitals, but in financial power hubs like Wall Street and the City of London.
 
The Illusion of Sovereignty
 
The average observer believes that American presidents or Israeli prime ministers make policy. In fact, their role is closer to that of a middle manager executing directives from above. Since the early 20th century, Anglo-American banking interests have shaped the world order: from the Bank of England’s dominance of global finance to the Federal Reserve’s creation as a quasi-private banking cartel, to the IMF and World Bank’s structural-adjustment programs.
 
Israel’s very creation was intertwined with these networks. The Balfour Declaration, issued by Britain in 1917, was not an act of altruism but a transaction between Zionist elites and British imperial interests during World War I. The Rothschild banking family’s involvement in the Zionist project is openly acknowledged. Similarly, America’s “special relationship” with Israel was cemented not out of sentiment but because it provided a reliable enforcer in a region rich with oil and resistant to Western economic domination.
 
Iran as a Case Study
 
The official story about Iran revolves around “preventing nuclear weapons.” This is a laughable pretext. The U.S. and its allies tolerated nuclear programs in Pakistan and India, not to mention Israel’s own covert nuclear arsenal. What truly infuriates Wall Street and the City of London about Iran is its independence from their system: Iran refuses dollar-denominated oil trade, it supports movements resisting Western-backed regimes, and it maintains a state-controlled banking system.
 
This is the real reason for decades of covert warfare, sanctions, and attempted regime change. The “nuclear threat” narrative is simply a convenient cover for the financial war being waged against Iran’s independence.
 
Disposable Assets
 
The key question rarely asked is: are Israel and the U.S. themselves disposable? The answer, seen from the perspective of global finance, is yes. These are not sovereign nations but tools. Once the tool becomes too costly, it is discarded.
 
The evidence is already visible. The United States has been bankrupted by its own wars since 2001—wars largely fought to enforce global financial order under the guise of fighting “terrorism.” Its industrial base has been gutted, its currency debased, and its political system reduced to puppet theater for donors and lobbyists. Meanwhile, Israel—long shielded from consequences—is increasingly seen as a pariah, its actions generating massive backlash and destabilizing its own long-term security.
 
This isn’t an accident. It’s the predictable outcome of policies designed to benefit transnational elites, not national populations.
 
The Endgame: Global Financial Consolidation
 
Wall Street and the City of London think in terms of decades, not election cycles. Their goal is not “American primacy” or “Israeli security” but a fully consolidated financial order, in which all significant nations are stripped of economic sovereignty. Any state resisting this—whether Iran, Russia, or China—must be neutralized.
 
If triggering a regional war involving Israel accelerates this process, or if weakening America’s global military network hastens the emergence of a new international monetary order, so be it. These are not bugs in the system; they are acceptable collateral damage.
 
Conclusion: A Controlled Decline
 
The decline of the American empire is not merely the result of mistakes or “blowback.” It is being managed. Israel’s future is likewise uncertain, as it is used to provoke conflicts that may ultimately destroy it. The real centers of power have no loyalty to nations. They are loyal only to their own networks, capital flows, and control mechanisms.
 
Until Americans and Israelis recognize this, they will continue to act as expendable pawns on a board designed and operated by others. The destruction of the U.S. dollar as the world’s reserve currency, the collapse of American military credibility, and the possible annihilation of Israel are not unthinkable outcomes—they are, from the standpoint of the global financial elite, entirely acceptable sacrifices on the path to their final goal.
 
How does the high level of violence in areas such as the Gaza Strip and Syria relate to Wall St. and City financial dominance? Is the slaughter seen as merely, unintended collateral damage, or is it the result of a conscious and deliberate policy which makes money out of blood?
 
Blood for Balance Sheets: Gaza, Syria, and the Financial Empire
 
Americans have been conditioned to think of wars as tragic “failures” of diplomacy or the work of “rogue” regimes. We’re told the horrors of Gaza, Syria, Iraq, or Libya are unintended collateral damage of “noble” policies. But when one examines who benefits, and who funds and directs these conflicts, a much darker picture emerges. These wars are not mistakes. They are a business model.
 
Perpetual War as a Financial Strategy
 
For Wall Street and the City of London, war has always been the most profitable of enterprises. The modern banking system was practically invented to fund wars. From the Rothschilds financing both sides of the Napoleonic Wars, to J.P. Morgan’s fortunes from World War I, to today’s military-industrial complex, the pattern is identical: conflict creates debt, debt creates dependency, and dependency creates control.
 
Every bomb dropped in Gaza or Syria represents not just a tragedy but a revenue stream. Weapons systems, ammunition, surveillance technology, private security firms, and reconstruction contracts are all funded by public debt underwritten by the same financial institutions that shape government policy. In this sense, war is not a “policy failure” but the ideal outcome. It transfers public wealth into private hands while simultaneously destabilizing regions that resist integration into the global financial order.
 
Gaza and Syria: Controlled Chaos
 
Take Gaza. The region’s permanent crisis ensures Israel remains a militarized state utterly dependent on Western armaments and intelligence support, while Palestinians are kept in conditions of desperation that destroy any possibility of independent development. This status quo benefits no ordinary Israeli or Palestinian—but it benefits the global arms dealers, energy speculators, and financial interests that thrive on instability.
 
Syria provides another clear case study. When Damascus refused to allow Western-backed pipelines across its territory, it became the target of a massive covert war funded and armed by U.S., British, and Gulf proxies. Tens of thousands were killed, millions displaced—all while Western contractors, energy firms, and speculators circled like vultures. The City of London and Wall Street financiers who back these ventures are not squeamish about “collateral damage”; chaos itself is their instrument.
 
Collateral Damage—or Deliberate Design?
 
It is naïve to think the slaughter is merely “unintended.” The architects of these policies have decades of experience. They understand perfectly well what mass bombings, sanctions, and covert destabilization campaigns will produce. The destruction is a feature, not a bug. When populations are traumatized and societies reduced to rubble, local resistance collapses, and their economies can be opened up to privatization and Western financial penetration.
 
Even the refugee flows into Europe are not unforeseen—they serve to destabilize European politics, pushing governments into more authoritarian, security-focused postures, which in turn justify higher defense spending and surveillance contracts. The same financial networks profit at every stage of the process.
 
Profiting from Blood
 
The neatest trick of all is that these wars are paid for with borrowed money. Governments issue bonds to fund “defense” spending. Those bonds are bought by the very banks and funds that profit from the wars. Interest payments are extracted from taxpayers for decades, while the debt-servicing itself justifies austerity measures and privatization of public assets. War thus becomes a form of debt peonage on a global scale.
 
In Gaza, in Syria, in Iraq, in Yemen—each massacre, each airstrike, each “humanitarian intervention” feeds this machine. Ordinary Americans, Britons, Israelis, Arabs, and Europeans pay in blood and treasure. The City and Wall Street collect.
 
Conclusion: War as a Financial System
 
The slaughter is not an accidental byproduct. It is a deliberate policy. It is how the modern financial system maintains its dominance—by creating chaos, funding the “solutions,” and indebting everyone involved. Wall Street and the City of London don’t simply “make money out of blood.” They have built an entire global order on it.
 

Is the United States' aggressive posture about forcing Iran to yield to lowering enrichment below 3%, involved with MI6 and The City of London's long-standing claims on Iranian oil rights? Wouldn't the United States further escalating conflict with Iran, only work to enhance The City's strategic interests, reversing a long-standing trend for Washington to take an independent lead in the global, geo-strategic sphere, relegating London to a secondary position?
 
Strip away the theatrical “non‑proliferation” rhetoric and what’s left is the same old Anglo imperial circuitry—MI6 and the City protecting historic claims on Iranian hydrocarbons and the financial rents that flow from bottling them up.
 
Washington’s demand to drive enrichment below 3% isn’t about physics; it’s about jurisdiction. Forcing Iran beneath an arbitrarily low threshold keeps Tehran dependent on external “permissioning” for every watt of sovereign energy policy, which in turn keeps pricing, insurance, shipping, and financing routed through City‑centric pipes. That’s the game: deny Iran the ability to monetize its own oil and gas on its own terms and you preserve London’s leverage over the spigots and the spreadsheets.
 
Escalation only sweetens The City’s hand:
 
Crisis premiums and volatility are City profit centers. Every sanction, saber‑rattle, and naval “incident” fattens the spread—priced, cleared, and insured in London’s ecosystem.
 
Chokepoint politics (Hormuz, Suez, Red Sea lanes) resurrect the old imperial logic: maritime control + energy arbitration = financial primacy.
 
“Allied coordination” conveniently re‑centralizes authority in transatlantic committees where London’s intelligence/financial networks are structurally over‑represented, while Washington eats the costs and the blame.
 
People pretend the postwar era made London junior to Washington. In practice, the Anglo security‑finance complex lets the U.S. swing the hammer while The City skims the cream. Every time Washington ratchets Iran—sanctions, covert ops, nuclear ultimatums—the result is the same: Iran’s sovereign capacity is capped, surrounding producers are disciplined, and the pricing/clearing rents keep flowing to London’s desks.
 
So yes: pushing Iran below 3% and flirting with escalation doesn’t reflect American “independence.” It’s the opposite. It reasserts the British deep-state template—oil control by proxy—nudging Washington back into the role of enforcer while The City reclaims the strategic dividend.

[Brian Griffin]

Trump’s 20-point Gaza peace plan in full
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c70155nked7o

Look at the date format - not American.

[Uncle Miltie]

Grok documents the source’s leftism:

“ Pressenza’s philosophy is rooted in universalist humanism, a worldview that centers the inherent dignity and value of every human being, emphasizing empathy, cooperation, and the transcendence of divisions like nationalism or ideology. This aligns with the broader Humanist Movement, which advocates for personal and social liberation through nonviolent means and the rejection of all forms of oppression.

Key pillars include:
• Peace and Nonviolence: Prioritizing the peaceful resolution of conflicts, prevention of violence, and withdrawal from occupied territories as essential to human progress.
• Disarmament: A strong focus on nuclear and conventional disarmament, including support for campaigns like the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots.
• Human Rights and Anti-Discrimination: Combating all forms of discrimination (e.g., based on race, gender, or orientation) and amplifying marginalized voices.
• Diversity and Social Base Empowerment: Celebrating cultural and social diversity while providing a platform for grassroots movements, social activism, and community-driven change.

In practice, Pressenza’s journalism blends reporting with activism, aiming not just to document suffering but to analyze its root causes and promote transformative solutions. It critiques systemic violence (e.g., war, inequality, environmental destruction) from a progressive, anti-authoritarian lens, often highlighting global solidarity efforts and alternative visions for a nonviolent world. This philosophy positions Pressenza as a counter-narrative to mainstream media, fostering a “lucid” engagement that inspires action toward a more equitable, peaceful humanity.”

[metmom]

IMO, useless speculation.

GOD is in control.

[Governor Dinwiddie]

Israel is an American ally, not an enemy.

[whitney69]

why make so much of it? This is why they are called allies. They work together using each other’s ideas and needs and come up- with a joint determination on what is best for them...US and Israel. If the US could do this wouldn’t it be a boom for man? But they are too busy trying to analyze each other’s ways of doing things whether it is in the best interest or not.

wy69

[marktwain]

Israel is an American ally, not an enemy.

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Exactly. “Who controls whom?” Begs the question by assuming one controls the other.

In reality, both affect the other in numerous changing ways.

The idea that one “controls” the other is simplistic, a poor way to view reality.

[jimwatx]

This appears to be a plausible explanation of what’s actually going on. America certainly hasn’t benefitted from any of these wars that we have been involved with, on the contrary it has definitely weakened us with overwhelming unpayable debt. Nor do I think Netanyahu’s policies are good for Israel, ironically I think those policies will lead to Israel’s demise.

And I don’t think Iran’s possibly acquiring nukes is the primary reason we are going after them. Besides having lots of oil and gas Iran sits at a strategic location where China and Russia want to install trade routes.

As far as Gaza is concerned there’s trillions of cf of gas sitting offshore and the West wants to build a canal through northern Gaza to connect the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea to have as an alternative to the Suez canal. So the reasons for all these wars may not be for the reasons they are telling us.

[Leaning Right]

> …because of the Zionist lobby <

My friends and I will occasionally sit around and talk politics. And sometimes we’ll talk about the pharmaceutical company lobby or the Israel lobby.

But Zionist lobby? Who the heck talks like that?

In my book it has a hidden meaning. I think the authors accidentally tipped their hand there.

[CharlesOConnell]

[CharlesOConnell]

[JimRed]

What is best for the United States is the primary concern. Since God said of Israel that He would Bless those who bless her and curse those who curse her, it would appear that backing and siding with Israel is best for the US.

[Widget Jr]

Let's take a look at what else Samir Saul, Michel Seymour, and Pressenza have posted.

Trump’s Foreign Policy: A Sham?

"Some believe that Donald Trump actually wants to end the war in Ukraine. Others believe he’s as belligerent as his predecessors. Who’s right? Perhaps a bit of both. He may have wanted to end American involvement in the war in Ukraine but, as president, he cannot put a stop to the United States’ war-mongering. If he gives the impression of wanting to end the war, it may be in order to turn it over to the Europeans and begin the one he wants to start with China, which is the priority target...."

Trump wants to start a war with China? How about China wanting to start a war with Taiwan?

State assassinations: a way to conceal political and military failure

"The recent spate of assassinations committed by Israel and the United States has drawn attention to what appears to be a growing trend: “decapitation.” War increasingly resembles ordinary criminality punishable under the law, specifically homicide or first-degree murder."

"The list of “targeted” assassinations has grown rapidly in recent times. If Iranian General Qassem Soleimani was killed by a US drone on January 3, 2020 in Baghdad, the following assassinations were carried out by Israel..."

Soleimani was targeted becuase he was about to start another Iraqi civil war, and everyone Israel targeted were Hamas and Hezbollah killed were involved in the October 7 attacks.

The 12-Day War and the World Conflict

"The war against Iran, which Israel has been seeking for over 20 years and which it launched with a blatant aggression on June 13, ended on June 24. A surprise attack ended with a surprise ceasefire. It is only a truce because the project of US-Israeli hegemony in West Asia (the Middle East) remains. Defeating Iran in order to achieve this hegemony is still on the agenda because the independence of a country of 90 million people constitutes a major obstacle. At the same time, the conquest of Iran would be a significant blow by the United States against its Russian and Chinese adversaries, and therefore a significant gain in a world war that has yet to be named."

The Islamic Republic of Iran's 45 year war regarding the existence of Israel is again, a subject not worth addressing directly.

Why Israel attacked Iran

"As if the genocide in Palestine were not enough, Israel simultaneously unleashed a war through a blatant and large-scale aggression. Does not Israel best fit the description of a “rogue state,” a term that the United States indiscriminately hurled at the countries it targeted?"

USA: Reflections on Another Election

"Having been mostly silent about American imperialism and the havoc that it wreaks, mainstream Western commentators were suddenly very vocal about the American election. They all voiced their opinions and made their predictions. Geopolitical knowledge, on the other hand, was absent from the minds of citizens, even though it was in a way the elephant in the room."

Pressenza Youtube channels, just look up what they say about Gaza, and take not of the absences of the talking directly about Hamas or October 7, except for interviewing Assange's wife.
English: https://www.youtube.com/@PressenzaIPA/search?query=gaza
Italian: https://www.youtube.com/@PressenzaItalia/search?query=gaza

Is this good enough, or is more needed?

[Uncle Miltie]

I see the anti-Semite caucus is chiming in as expected.

[jimwatx]

You’re just an incredibly ignorant person calling anyone with an opinion different than yours an antisemite.

[Uncle Miltie]

Let’s count the Jew focus: +1.

[Uncle Miltie]

Let’s count the Jew focus: +1.

[jimwatx]

You come off as being mentally deranged. I comment on many different threads and different topics here on FR with Israel just being a small part of my overall commentary. Whereas you are a one trick pony who only seems concerned with Israel. So accusing me of only focusing on Israel is pretty ridiculous but I’ve come to expect that from you.

[Uncle Miltie]

Not as bad as I recall. Certainly not in the maniacally focused (see tagline).

Carry on.

[9YearLurker]

It’s more like the MI6, CIA, Mossad Deep State henchmen for the globalists jointly control the political levels across the three countries.