Something simple to dwell upon...
In addition, why do clouds appear lower in the sky with distance?
It's called perspective and the vanishing point.
BASIC stuff and yet you don't know it. Amazing.
Posted on 09/02/2025 4:40:08 AM PDT by daniel1212
My name is Joe Owen. I head up the worldwide languages ministry at Answers in Genesis.
That's Charlie Duke. There were nine missions to the moon. I worked on five of them. In 1978, I became a born again Christian.
I came to faith on January 19, 1988. I was selected by NASA in 1996, and I flew four times—once on the space shuttle going to the space station and then three expeditions, each about six months long.
Many times, I am introduced as an astronaut, but if I were to describe myself, I certainly wouldn't call myself an astronaut, because the way I see myself is as a wretched sinner who is saved by grace. Second from being a wretched sinner saved by grace, I consider myself a naval aviator.
Barry and I actually shared a little bit of time in space—his first flight. He launched on the space shuttle STS 129 while I was on an expedition on the space station. So, he brought me fresh food, and there you go.
We had a great time.
He allowed us into his home because he was living there, of course, and we were just visiting. But it was a great experience. Jeff, at one point you had the most days in space. It's over 500 days, correct?
Yeah, I think they say 534 days.
And now, Butch, you're getting up there. You're at 446 total days, but also, you just came back from, as many people know, a mission that went longer than planned. Was it 286 days with the Starliner launch? So, I have three very interesting fellas in front of me with perspectives that a lot of us don't have. What is the wow moment?
The biggest wow for me is the grandeur of this place that we call home, which God created and uniquely provisioned for our habitation—we call it Earth. Orbiting the Earth 16 times a day for a year and a half, studying the surface of the Earth, and taking in all of the details you can see from that vantage point was the most spectacular part of the experience for me.
As soon as I got to space, the engines on the space shuttle cut off. We separated from the external tank. I felt weightlessness for the first time. There were jets in the nose of the space shuttle that were blasting orange bursts right up in front of me. I could hear it—little explosions at my feet. Boom. Boom. One of my crewmates levitated up from the mid deck. He didn’t climb the ladder, he just levitated up. I'd seen it on video, but never with my own eyes. It was the strangest sight—just floating up from below. When the shuttle separated from the external tank, water droplets on the tank turned to ice. Thousands of ice crystals floated outside the window, illuminated by the sun. It looked like glistening diamonds—thousands of them outside the window. Orange blast. Boom. Boom. Boom. I felt weightless. Still strapped in, my crewmates levitating everywhere. And I thought, “Wow, Lord. How did I get here? How did I get to this point where I am the guy in this seat and all this is taking place?” That was a pretty wild moment.
I think one of the most moving times of my flight was when we went into orbit around the moon and came around from the backside; we had Earthrise for the first time. Honestly, my first thought was, “We are a long way from home. I hope this thing holds together.” But then the beauty of it hit: that vision of Earth. It’s a beautiful planet. You don’t see any evidence of civilization, just that jewel suspended in the blackness of space. Vividly impressed in my mind still today.
General, when you say that, I think—wow, that vantage point of our planet from the backside of the moon, only 24 individuals have experienced that. You were one of them. That’s very special—a gift from the Lord not many people have had.
I can’t say at that point I recalled the Apollo 8 Christmas Eve broadcast. Bill Anders took that picture of Earth coming up and they started reading from Genesis: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." I got back and looked in the scriptures and it says, "When God made the earth, he suspended it upon nothing." That’s exactly what it looks like.
The three of you, in your wow moments, have not spoken about what everyone else mentions. When we ask an astronaut, we ask about the stars in the distance. All three of you have focused on Earth. I think that points again to our planet being where those made in the image of God are—the stewards and recipients of the gospel. Jesus came to this earth.
One of my favorite themes from scripture: when we think about the works of God, we think of creation, redemption, His provision and sustaining creation, but sometimes forget His work as governor and providence.
I'll echo that. He’s absolutely right. This amazing created globe that Isaiah tells us the Lord created to be inhabited—you can see that from space. It's a demonstration of God's providential care for each of us.
Everywhere I go, General, they ask: “The moon landings never happened, right?” Some people say it’s hard to believe they were fake. I say it’s hard to believe they were real. The moon landing—I just can't get behind it. I can’t believe it happened. There’s a bunch of weird theories.
It's regrettable that people believe 400,000 people supported the moon program and could all be part of a conspiracy. People believe that for strange reasons. But we know, of course, you went. There’s no way we would all stand here, professing our faith in Jesus Christ, and boldface lie to everyone—plus maintain that secret for 55 years.
The evidence is overwhelming. The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter has taken pictures of every Apollo landing site—there it is! Some say that's part of the conspiracy, too.
Charlie, describe what it’s like to hop around on the moon in a heavy suit at one-sixth gravity.
Down here, with all my gear on, I weighed 363 pounds. Up on the moon, 60 pounds. So you had this bounciness. Boy, was that fun. But you had to bend over to keep your center of gravity over your feet, or you’d tilt backward or fall forward. It was easy once we got used to it and how to move around the surface. John and I had a rover, so we didn’t walk far but drove 17 miles. I fell down a couple times while working on an experiment.
So now I'm flat on my face on the moon, and John's off somewhere busy. So I started a series of push-ups—rocked up on my feet and stood up. "How'd you like that?" "Ah, beautiful maneuver there, Charlie."
I felt right at home on the moon. The beauty—the rolling hills, craters, mountains, the clear horizon—no atmosphere, so you see the sharp line between black space and the gray moon. We had so much fun, I didn’t want to come back. “Come on, Houston, give us two more hours.” "Get in the spacecraft, guys." Our last hour on the moon was moving for me. I brought a picture of my family, dropped it on the moon. I thank God, looking back, for His providence, giving me that opportunity.
The general term is "spacewalk," but truly, of the three of us, only one walked on the moon. Jeff and I "spacehanded" on the space station, climbing hand over hand outside the station for nearly seven hours. It was the hardest thing we did—physically and mentally—but also the most rewarding.
This flat earth movement is gaining popularity, which surprises me. Of course, the earth is spherical. When I first heard about the flat earth movement in 2016, I thought it was satire. When I got back, I realized it was a new movement. Whenever I speak, this question comes up. Usually, someone knows a flat-earther. There's no logic to the argument. I've given up trying to argue logically. It's utter foolishness. It’s becoming more concerning: If you can believe that, you could be led astray about the truth of Scripture. It’s a dangerous heretical line of thinking.
You can look at the pictures we took of the earth—it’s round. No question. How can you defend a flat earth?
"How can you believe in the Bible and science? Aren’t those contradictory?" The true understanding of science is only understood through the biblical lens. During the age of science—Kepler, Newton, Maxwell—all were believers, driven to scientific endeavor by faith in a God of order. There's a mathematical, chemical, physical order in creation that makes science possible. We bear the image of God, the Creator; we are creative. In Genesis 1, God says to Adam, “Subdue the earth, have dominion.” Scientific endeavor, rightly understood, is subduing God’s provision.
Meanwhile, during the same era, you can see the evolution of evolutionary thought: what became known as Darwinian theory. Some, like Huxley, hated the church and even acknowledged there was little genuine science in Darwin’s work.
When people ask how the Bible and science fit, I point to Matthew 24—‘Be not deceived.’ Saying Bible and science are at odds is a deception. The Bible is absolutely true: inerrant, infallible, sufficient for all we need. It isn’t a science book, but where it speaks to science, it’s accurate, 100%. To say otherwise is heretical. Except for miracles, the Bible aligns 100% with science.
Science increasingly proves that life is not an accident: the genome, the helixes, are mathematically impossible by chance. I was a big evolutionist; that’s what NASA taught me. They called the moon rock I brought back four billion years old. They say it’s the oldest rock on earth that John and I picked up. Well, it might be the oldest, but it’s not four billion years old—that’s not what the Bible says. I believe scripture.
Sorry to bring such a philosophical, theological question at the end, but do astronauts get to keep their space suits?
No. Some keep gloves, like maybe Jeff has his Russian space suit gloves, I did not keep mine. Some keep something like that, but that’s about it. Russians have a tradition of giving gloves after a spacewalk.
Did you get to keep any of your suit?
Me? No. I wasn’t allowed to keep any of the suit. I kept some tools from the moon, and all the checklists. No moon rocks—they wouldn’t let us. You’d go to jail for a rock!
You look down from mountaintops to see what is straight ahead of you so you’ve already proven reality escapes you.
You're right—I clearly missed the part where ice walls and helicopters prove gravity doesn't exist. My bad.
I see nothing inconsistent with your views regarding science and the Bible.
One thing that could be is that a “day” in Genesis can also be translated as a period of time - like the “day of the dinosaurs”.
I had one pastor that offered the possibility (although I don’t think it was his personal favorite) that God created the earth to “look old”. “When He created Adam, he did not create him as baby - he created him as a man, already grown and “old”.”
I don’t subscribe to that idea, but it is an interesting concept.
I understand, but then, how old would a fully grown man test to be the moment God created him? How old would he test after the Fall?
And it is much smaller than the earth as well.
Ah, flights of fancy as well. Bless your heart.
They are talking of using water in a future Mars Mission Capsule in the way you are talking about...much longer time in space beyond the moon where beyond that, there is much more intense cosmic and solar radiation to deal with. They have also spoken of creating with the use of a nuke reactor an artificial magnetic field bubble around such ships to knock away incoming radiation the same way Earth’s magnetic field does.
As for your claims of “fake” pictures...ultimately you have to have real pictures to compare with what is fake.
I get that you think that the governing powers and the powers of the air practice deceit....
My view is that they did go to the moon but they are not revealing everything that has been found! Some folks argue that the real space program is much more extensive than the governing powers wish to reveal....
So pick your conspiracy...God will expose it all someday!
Dig deeper.
Try stepping on a moving treadmill and watch what happens next.
Dare I ask you to elaborate your argument, vs. cryptic one sentence statements. I suppose your analogy refers to landing on the moon, which takes approximately 27 days for the moon to rotate once on its axis. Earth spins around its axis at up to 1,038 miles per hour. To which applies:
Moon landing deniers often claim that landing on the Moon would be like trying to step onto a fast-moving treadmill, arguing that the Moon’s surface rotation (about 10.3 mph at the equator) and the Earth’s rotation (about 1,037 mph at the equator) must make landing impossible or impractical. Here’s why this analogy is incorrect:
The Moon rotates very slowly on its axis—about 10.3 miles per hour (16.7 km/h) at its equator—taking 27.3 days to complete one rotation.astronomy
The Earth’s equator rotates much faster—about 1,037 mph (1,670 km/h).space+1
Spacecraft and their targets (like the Moon) are traveling together through space, each with their own rotational and orbital velocities.
When Apollo missions traveled to the Moon, the spacecraft were inserted into lunar orbit and their speed was matched to the Moon’s. This means the lander wasn’t trying to “step onto” a moving target like someone jumping onto a spinning treadmill; rather, it was already moving with the Moon before descent.
When a lander approaches the lunar surface, it decelerates relative to the Moon’s ground, and a gentle vertical touchdown is made as their speeds match.
The same principle applies for returning to the moving Earth—spacecraft use orbital mechanics to synchronize with Earth’s rotation and atmosphere for a safe reentry.reddit+1
The Moon is tidally locked to Earth, meaning the same side always faces us. The rotation is so slow and predictable that landing sites remain “in view” for more than a week at a stretch, unlike the rapid spinning of the Earth’s surface.
| Body | Equatorial Rotation Speed | Landing/Takeoff Challenges |
|---|---|---|
| Earth | ~1,037 mph | Managed through matching rotation/speed |
| Moon | ~10.3 mph | Very slow, easily matched for gentle landing |
In reality, Moon landings involved careful calculation of both the Moon’s movement and the spacecraft’s own motion—matching speeds before touchdown, not “jumping onto a treadmill.” This is standard practice in all rendezvous in spaceflight, whether docking, landing, or reentry.astronomy+1
Source: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-is-the-raio-of-105-office-98lmZhzARESy7SsdfbTnpg#19
I did not discuss landing on the moon.
What I was discussing was walking on the moon.
The “treadmill” is the surface.
I leave to you the calculation of the speed of the treadmill.
Hint: Walk into the local gym and ask them to run the treadmill at the speed on the moon’s rotation on its axis.
(Note: Not the orbital speed—the rotation on its axis.)
You can calculate the speed of the moon’s rotation on its axis in feet per second so you can tell the gym the speed you want.
Then you get to step on the moving treadmill and announce:
“One small step for man, one giant step for mankind”.
It is for science that you do this.
Lol.
It should be patently obvious to you that even if you are on a merry go-round and step off a wooden horse than you are not going to fall down.
Calculate the speed (moon rotation on its axis) of the “wooden horse”.
The answer may surprise you.
The equation for a parabola is incorrect for a sphere, y ≠ 8⋅x².
I CLEARLY posted 8” per mile2 and you OBVIOUSLY know what that is...which is NOT the equation for a parabola and IS a common approximation used to describe the drop in height due to the Earth’s (a globe with a fixed radius) curvature over a given distance.
—
We have a flat Earther here. OK, whether the approximation is a length or area I no matter. The curvature of the Earth cannot be approximated by a parabola.
Here are some rotating Earth facts for you:
Coriolis effect,
circumpolar stars,
Foucault pendulum.
In addition, why do clouds appear lower in the sky with distance?
Why are contrails straight as appearing in the sky?
Why does the Sun rise and proceed to the south in the Northern hemisphere but also appear to rise and proceed to the north in the Southern hemisphere?
Time lapse videos of the Sun setting in the West in the Northern Hemisphere could also be of the Sun rising in the East in the Southern hemisphere.
Of the Sun rising in the East in reverse. Sorry.
Something simple to dwell upon...
In addition, why do clouds appear lower in the sky with distance?
It's called perspective and the vanishing point.
BASIC stuff and yet you don't know it. Amazing.
It’s not wonder living on a flat plane seems beyond your ability to understand.
To believe that an exceedingly vast, systematically ordered universe, exquisitely finely tuned for life with profound intricate, elaborate complexity and extensive diversity, can be all a result of purely natural processes requires much faith. More so i submit, than that the universe logically testifies to design, requiring a First Cause (at the least), that of a being of supreme power and intelligence being behind the existence of energy and organization of matter, and laws regarding the same.
In addition, why do clouds appear lower in the sky with distance?
—
It’s called perspective and the vanishing point.
bfl
all of the coding I’ve done in my career, and all of the program code I’ve seen from others. It’s ridiculous to think that DNA came about just from random chance.
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To believe that an exceedingly vast, systematically ordered universe, exquisitely finely tuned for life with profound intricate, elaborate complexity and extensive diversity, can be all a result of purely natural processes requires much faith. More so i submit, than that the universe logically testifies to design, requiring a First Cause (at the least), that of a being of supreme power and intelligence being behind the existence of energy and organization of matter, and laws regarding the same.
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Excellent discussion. As a scientist, the more I learned about the physics of the universe, the more I was convinced that the universe was not an accident. The evidence for design in nature is overwhelming.
You mentioned the cosmological argument involving a prime mover, proposed by Thomas Aquinas. I’m finding that the teleological argument is gaining strength via Intelligent Design. My prima facie argument: there are too many cosmic coincidences that allowed life to proliferate on Earth, beginning with the abundance of carbon and water in the universe (triple alpha process), the inherent property of water to be most transparent to light in the blue-green part of the visible spectrum, location of the sun (a class G2 star) w.r.t. Earth, the size and location of our moon and the origin of the first self-replicating RNA molecule, these examples represent too many apparent fine-tunings so that the probability of life emerging through spontaneous processes or via self-organization are so low as to be mathematically impossible.
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