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0:00 · it really is a great honor to present my
0:01 · next get our first guest tonight I
0:03 · suppose the word
0:05 · hero sounds corny at times but I don't
0:07 · think you have Heroes anymore and maybe
0:09 · uh some but the youngsters need Heroes
0:11 · nowadays and they probably get tired of
0:12 · that word they would consider themselves
0:14 · I suppose
0:15 · professional test pilots uh and which
0:18 · say
0:18 · all right a tremendous skill but there's
0:21 · just been over a month since uh their
0:23 · great courage and skill under
0:24 · tremendously adverse conditions uh
0:27 · made them uh Heroes of the entire world
0:30 · would you please welcome the Apollo 13
0:31 · team James Lovell Fred Hayes and Jack
0:34 · Swaggart I don't know
0:39 · [Music]
0:44 · [Applause]
1:08 · [Music]
1:10 · foreign
1:14 · [Music]
1:21 · [Music]
1:36 · since I've been doing this show in seven
1:39 · and a half years that I've seen an
1:40 · entire studio audience uh get to their
1:43 · feet and applaud and uh you've received
1:46 · a lot of that since you've come back
1:48 · it must be an emotional type of thing I
1:51 · mentioned you fellas I use the word
1:52 · Heroes which I said you I know you've
1:54 · said it before in interviews that you
1:55 · don't consider yourself for that at all
1:56 · Captain right
1:57 · well as a matter of fact uh we didn't
1:59 · know just how the world was taking it
2:01 · until we actually got back on the ground
2:03 · that's right you're really the last
2:05 · you're always trying to find out about
2:07 · it
2:08 · you know I never thought of it that way
2:09 · it was uh after meeting all the people
2:12 · and uh
2:13 · and appreciating the uh
2:15 · the feeling and the emotion that they
2:18 · had I sort of feel like maybe I missed
2:20 · something being up there
2:22 · we missed all the excitement you know
2:24 · yeah
2:26 · were you were you kind of amazed at the
2:28 · outpouring of emotion from countries all
2:30 · over the world not just the United
2:31 · States but I can't remember a time when
2:33 · there's been a circumstance where
2:35 · somebody has been in in that kind of uh
2:38 · of a situation where the entire world uh
2:40 · and foreign countries and and the the
2:42 · even the Communist Bloc in all of the
2:44 · countries of the world seem to to join
2:46 · together for a moment a real little maze
2:48 · at that reaction he got back yes I think
2:50 · this is what uh really struck us that uh
2:53 · for perhaps just an instant maybe the
2:56 · whole world was together
2:57 · it's funny they seem to get together on
2:59 · things like science don't they they were
3:01 · in a common in a common crises we all
3:04 · seem to join hands we sure do just like
3:06 · one human being helping another
3:08 · you're you're Captain right now uh Jim
3:10 · yes Johnny and uh Fred you're uh Thomas
3:13 · you're civilian and Jack also civilian I
3:16 · was sort of outnumbered uh being in the
3:18 · military yes captain in the Navy right I
3:21 · was a I was an innocent in the Navy
3:26 · you know what being an engine in the
3:28 · Navy it's like being a hood ornament on
3:29 · an Edsel
3:30 · yeah
3:32 · there's not much call for that
3:35 · you had a busy day today haven't you
3:37 · what's what's been happening since
3:38 · you've been in New York
3:39 · well we had lunch with mayor Lindsay
3:41 · today it was very nice
3:43 · and we had a press conference uh
3:48 · and your show tonight followed by a play
3:51 · you're gonna see a play and then there's
3:53 · another I think a reception later on
3:54 · tonight because
3:55 · the mayor also is or not and he told me
3:58 · that your car was double parked down
4:00 · below and the police towed it away
4:03 · our mayor would throw away your capsule
4:05 · if it landed in New York
4:09 · [Applause]
4:15 · you probably uh been asked every
4:18 · question in the book on what they call a
4:20 · debriefing and David Brinkley wants that
4:22 · on television he never understood the
4:24 · term debriefing he says why not a
4:26 · briefing when you got back what's what's
4:27 · the difference between a briefing and a
4:28 · debriefing
4:30 · anybody any fellas you would ask us
4:33 · those techniques
4:35 · France is English major well I wanted
4:38 · debriefing I think the briefing would
4:41 · constitute the preparation and the
4:43 · training we go through getting ready to
4:45 · fly the flight and debriefing is where
4:48 · we we give our comments on how each
4:51 · phase worked and how we felt maybe our
4:54 · training was deficient and what we
4:56 · should do better the next time what was
4:58 · the greatest thrill when you got back
4:59 · outside I suppose talking to your wives
5:00 · Jack is a is a bachelor and talking to
5:04 · the president well on board the ship
5:06 · they had a little Communications link up
5:08 · with us we had three phones and it was
5:10 · sort of a one-sided conversation all
5:12 · three of us were talking at one time and
5:14 · Fred and I were talking to our wives and
5:16 · Jack was talking to the entire
5:18 · Continental airline stewardess Corps
5:20 · [Music]
5:23 · Jack has flown before hasn't he
5:27 · I thought I was going to get by without
5:29 · Jim making some comment about that but
5:31 · he didn't last time we really set it up
5:32 · for me in Chicago he said that a a
5:34 · bachelor is like a new detergent that's
5:37 · uh one that works fast and leaves no
5:39 · rings
5:44 · what are you doing about 11 30 every
5:46 · night
5:49 · we have an opening on a staff gym if you
5:51 · can come up with this stuff you can come
5:53 · up with this stuff every night you know
5:54 · you probably get tired of that don't you
5:55 · jack because uh you're one of the few
5:57 · bachelors in the whole program I guess
5:59 · of NASA right yes and that they you'll
6:02 · always have to have something to say now
6:03 · they can talk about your kids and your
6:05 · wife and so forth but I remember you
6:07 · because you went in through with three
6:08 · days notice on this slide right yes and
6:11 · uh they weren't prepared for that and it
6:13 · drove the newsmen crazy because they
6:15 · weren't quite prepared to report on Jack
6:17 · swankert and they ran around I saw them
6:18 · interviewing your landlord
6:21 · you know and the landlord says yes he's
6:23 · a his nice place here he lives right
6:25 · here
6:28 · laughs
6:30 · at the time that this happened
6:32 · um
6:33 · when you first knew that you had the
6:35 · trouble that something was wrong who's
6:36 · the first to know you were the first one
6:37 · I think the radio back to Mission
6:39 · Control in Houston right no actually it
6:40 · was Jack Jack was the man who said uh I
6:43 · think we have a problem here
6:46 · so I guess I guess turned out to be the
6:49 · understatement of the century I guess
6:50 · you know the funny thing we were going
6:52 · to get a recording uh from NASA of that
6:55 · particular time when it happened
6:56 · thinking it would be very exciting you
6:58 · know and intense but the strange thing
7:00 · about it is we we listened to it
7:02 · and it sounded like you had reported
7:04 · that the uh you know you didn't get your
7:06 · dime back from the pay phone or
7:07 · something it was it wasn't exciting at
7:09 · all in the context and the way you
7:11 · handle it is that is that because of the
7:12 · tremendous training and you're ready for
7:15 · this kind of a contingency and you just
7:17 · automatically react and then the
7:19 · emotions come a little bit later
7:21 · well I think that actually we didn't
7:23 · know really how serious the situation
7:24 · was at the time and uh as it started to
7:27 · get more serious our voices got a little
7:29 · bit more tense if you listen to the
7:31 · tapes closely it took about 45 minutes
7:34 · for I guess the problem to develop in
7:36 · its fullest
7:38 · can you remember back this is probably
7:39 · terribly difficult with all the things
7:41 · that you have to do and with shutting
7:43 · down one system and been doing all the
7:45 · technical things you have to do
7:47 · but can you remember in your mind what
7:49 · your was there fear at the time I
7:52 · suppose there was thinking that this
7:54 · possibly could be a fatal uh
7:57 · thing that could happen and you would
7:58 · could be possibly stranded or that the
8:01 · whole the unit would would explode or
8:03 · something is that moment of uh
8:05 · of saying good happens this this is it
8:07 · the percentages have caught up
8:10 · well I guess everybody kind of you know
8:11 · faces that situation where they say uh
8:13 · gee any place but here anybody but me
8:16 · and uh but there's only one thing to do
8:18 · in a situation like that as we talked
8:20 · about it that is you have to just keep
8:22 · charging forward and uh you know do
8:24 · everything possible to get back home
8:25 · again and I suppose everybody go ahead
8:27 · Ben yeah there's another Point too uh we
8:30 · have uh backups for everything and we
8:32 · were we were never in a position
8:34 · to where we didn't at least have one
8:36 · more direction to go in this case the
8:38 · limb so
8:40 · if I charge them the limb and turned it
8:42 · on and found something wrong there then
8:44 · I would have maybe got a lot more
8:46 · concerned that could have been the ball
8:47 · game right there huh
8:48 · yeah that's that's fascinating I think
8:50 · it was Alan Shepard once who said they
8:52 · asked him how he felt when they made the
8:54 · first flight and he said it was a
8:55 · strange feeling traveling around the
8:57 · Earth in a vehicle
8:58 · in which you know every part was made by
9:00 · the lowest bidder
9:04 · I don't know
9:08 · affect me trigger's your joke there
9:12 · you fellas didn't have any of this uh on
9:14 · the drip you know the saying too soon
9:16 · too old too late do you agree Edward
9:19 · well a lot of people know you're never
9:22 · too old to smarten up about some things
9:24 · for example I know that if you want to
9:27 · stay on the young side you should
9:29 · exercise and you should eat sensibly one
9:31 · way is by starting the day with a good
9:33 · breakfast like Kellogg's Product 19.
9:37 · it's the cereal with 100 percent of the
9:40 · minimum daily adult requirements for
9:42 · vitamins and iron a Powerhouse and
9:45 · delicious so get back on the young side
9:49 · start right now with Kellogg's Product
9:51 · like knee
9:56 · we're talking with the uh Apollo 13
9:58 · astronauts Jim you lost what 14 pounds
10:00 · on us 14.
10:03 · was that because the food is getting
10:04 · worse or getting better well the food
10:07 · was is getting better but we followed
10:09 · your instructions on your show a few
10:10 · months ago and uh we didn't know how to
10:12 · eat it they sent us some food from uh
10:16 · when they had the mock-up upstairs here
10:17 · in in the studio made H I guess and one
10:19 · night we tried it you said your wife uh
10:21 · my wife saw it she's here tonight uh yes
10:24 · where where's your wife sitting would
10:26 · you like to meet Mrs where were you Mrs
10:27 · lava because I've seen you on magazines
10:30 · how are you right
10:45 · yeah I guess what's that Winston
10:46 · Churchill said they also serve who also
10:48 · only stand and wait that's must be very
10:50 · very tough on wives and children uh to
10:54 · wait for you but the food yeah we had it
10:56 · one night and we didn't do it right or
10:57 · something we were putting you said a
10:59 · moment ago watering the things we
11:00 · shouldn't have put water in
11:03 · I don't think we should ever go on a
11:06 · trip Ed they haven't made they have not
11:09 · made the booster yet they can get you
11:14 · since I've lost all this weight are you
11:15 · still doing these heavy jokes about I
11:17 · don't know if nothing else
11:19 · uh I was asking Jim during the
11:21 · commercial break here when the next uh
11:22 · is this this is delayed somewhat the
11:25 · next uh projected flight has enough yes
11:27 · uh it was originally scheduled sometime
11:30 · in October and now probably the earliest
11:31 · weekend launches in December
11:33 · have they as of yet determined what went
11:37 · wrong with any degree of certainty that
11:40 · I know that you blew out what
11:41 · practically the whole side panel of the
11:42 · main booster right and they thought it
11:44 · was what in a battery uh well we lost of
11:47 · course uh all of our electrical power
11:49 · the three fuel cells and the two oxygen
11:51 · tanks and I'll refer to my Command
11:53 · Module expert to give you yeah Jack what
11:55 · do you think there which means that he
11:56 · can't quite technically get the answer
11:58 · to this
12:02 · that's what's known as the commander
12:05 · passing the buck uh no the uh
12:08 · the the problem laying the number two
12:10 · oxygen tank and uh we know that it was a
12:13 · right now a short uh in the wiring I
12:17 · don't think that uh that they have quite
12:19 · uh
12:21 · completely identified it out to be
12:23 · truthful I've been gone from the review
12:26 · board and I haven't followed their uh
12:28 · the progress of the review board so I
12:30 · haven't got the latest uh information on
12:34 · what exactly happened and since you did
12:35 · have the jettison that part
12:38 · um they don't really have any tangible
12:40 · evidence to lay their hands on do they
12:42 · just kind of have to go by what could
12:44 · have happened and then get rid of the
12:45 · Alternatives I suppose well it's amazing
12:47 · what they can do with just Telemetry we
12:49 · jettison of course the part that went
12:51 · wrong right but all the readouts that
12:53 · the ground had gotten from Telemetry in
12:55 · the communications during the incident
12:57 · and after uh plus their analysis allowed
13:00 · themselves to analyze the situation and
13:03 · come up with the answer
13:05 · was there any time that you thought that
13:07 · the backup system that you possibly
13:11 · it seems like a dumb question and I
13:13 · don't mean it morbidly but it crosses
13:15 · people's minds that you know you've
13:17 · probably seen the motion picture that
13:18 · made maroon where they were stranded
13:21 · that does that ever crossed your mind at
13:22 · any time when you go on one of these
13:24 · these flights and you've got more time
13:25 · uh in space than anybody else Jim that's
13:28 · saying what would I do in fact if this
13:32 · did happen I mean the possibility I
13:34 · guess always exists in any dangerous
13:36 · thing a human error mechanical air is
13:38 · there uh even with the greatest
13:40 · expertise that what would you do
13:44 · if you couldn't get back I know that
13:45 · sounds like an insipid question but I'm
13:48 · sure that you must have thought about it
13:50 · philosophically some someplace well I
13:52 · think everybody in in the program has
13:54 · that thought that feeling we of course
13:57 · look at it from the fact that we make
14:00 · things so reliable and so redundant that
14:02 · it's only a remote possibility and
14:05 · really we just put it out of our minds
14:06 · we have to otherwise we'd never make a
14:08 · flight you could never really function
14:09 · could you as a Professional Engineers
14:12 · under those circumstances
14:13 · I was wondering if it was planned
14:15 · beforehand that if something like this
14:17 · went wrong was the lamb supposed to be
14:18 · used as this way was that planned in the
14:21 · program or is that a surprise thing that
14:23 · just developed because you had no other
14:24 · choice let me let Fred answer that he's
14:26 · our limb expert
14:29 · they had had some procedures uh way back
14:32 · in the back room somewhere where a long
14:35 · time ago someone had envisioned using
14:37 · the lamb as a Lifeboat they were pretty
14:40 · dusty
14:41 · the only thing we had planned to use the
14:43 · land for in that regard was we had a
14:45 · procedure written in case the main
14:48 · engine on the Command Module failed
14:50 · burning in the lunar orbit part way
14:53 · you then would Scurry into the limb and
14:55 · fire it up and use this engine to get
14:57 · you headed back home
14:59 · and uh I bet they've done an update on
15:01 · that haven't they on how to use that
15:03 · again but we never really envisioned
15:05 · powering down the Command Module we
15:07 · always had the Command Module electrical
15:10 · system and oxygen system as a life
15:13 · support system one of the great problems
15:15 · was the was the cold wasn't it it got
15:17 · down to what 38 38 degrees 38 degrees
15:20 · and one of you of course had to stay up
15:23 · at all times to monitor the and do the
15:26 · readouts I suppose on the systems we
15:28 · have a short piece of film here I think
15:30 · you did this on the way back right
15:32 · after all this problem still not really
15:35 · even knowing I guess to whether you got
15:37 · into the right window as they say to
15:38 · re-enter so watch the monitor here in
15:40 · the studio and gentlemen if he'll tell
15:43 · us what the you're doing it at the time
15:45 · uh Bobby you want to roll the tape
15:47 · please here we are
15:50 · what you're looking at now is the
15:51 · Command Module it's down to about 38
15:53 · degrees uh very cold and it's completely
15:56 · dead nothing's working and you just saw
15:58 · the hash that was oh that's up through
16:00 · the tunnel as they say that's right
16:01 · right into the through the tunnel and
16:02 · back into uh the Aquarius the lunar
16:05 · module and
16:06 · Jack the interesting thing is that when
16:08 · you're right side up in the Command
16:09 · Module and you come down the tunnel
16:11 · you're upside down in the limbs so it
16:12 · takes a while to to get reoriented
16:15 · do you have any sense of direction uh
16:20 · here at all whether you're upside down
16:21 · or not since there's no Direction really
16:23 · such in space is there only visual uh
16:26 · you have no balance of course isn't your
16:28 · weight loss I mean up or down is
16:31 · relative right there's our little tape
16:33 · recorder which we played the theme from
16:34 · 2001.
16:38 · after all of this trouble you got you
16:40 · listen to a radio show
16:42 · and Jack's asleep back there near the
16:45 · hatch he was trying to get a little shut
16:47 · eye at the time
16:48 · the thing about our photography is we
16:50 · had to take it just when the light came
16:51 · around because we didn't want to use any
16:52 · interior lights because it'd use power
16:54 · oh I see so we had to shut down
16:56 · everything that wasn't necessary to save
16:58 · power are you turning at this time yes
17:00 · we are turning and there's Fred with his
17:02 · hand in his uh shirt there uh going
17:05 · sound asleep trying to get a little
17:06 · shutout keeps your hands from floating
17:08 · floating up bother you when you're
17:09 · sleeping I never thought of that
17:13 · there's a gym or is that yeah we had
17:15 · just one person who had the watch he
17:17 · wore the Hat with the communications and
17:19 · the rest of people were I know you're
17:21 · having dinner there yep there's Jack
17:22 · eating right now and it's amazing we can
17:24 · actually use a spoon and in zero gravity
17:27 · if there's enough viscosity in the fluid
17:31 · I think this is uh right prior to entry
17:34 · uh Jim and I were going up or uh through
17:36 · the entry procedures they required a lot
17:39 · of close cooperation with Jim and the
17:40 · lamb and myself in the Command Module
17:42 · you see Jim uh rubbing his hands there
17:45 · and that's because it was just that cool
17:49 · of course there was a time just before
17:51 · this last mid-course or the mid course
17:53 · 105 hours when we would still have
17:55 · missed the Earth and so we had to make
17:56 · this particular maneuver uh to make sure
17:59 · we got captured by the atmosphere right
18:01 · otherwise we'd have skipped off into uh
18:03 · into space again that's what they call
18:05 · about the re-entry angle that has to be
18:06 · so precise that you don't enter too fast
18:08 · then you don't enter too shallow that
18:10 · you as you say skip back into
18:13 · right skip away from the orbit
18:17 · actually these pictures were taken with
18:19 · a wide angle lens that Fred held most
18:21 · the time and makes the interior of
18:24 · Aquarius a lot roomier than it actually
18:26 · is
18:28 · it was sort of uh you know people get
18:30 · the impression when you see this on
18:31 · television that it's rather roomy and
18:33 · yet it's really not at all is it
18:35 · there's an advantage of zero g I shot my
18:38 · own pictures just by turning the camera
18:39 · and moving it away while it was still
18:41 · running
18:46 · what we're doing here we're trying to
18:47 · still everything you know we couldn't uh
18:49 · we couldn't dump anything over overboard
18:51 · which presented a problem for three days
18:52 · as you might think so we had a stow it
18:55 · in all kinds of containers
18:57 · and the waste products got to be quite
18:59 · deep there after a while
19:03 · I guess we've become space litter bugs
19:05 · already haven't we by she has
19:18 · to the average person who really is so
19:21 · hard for us to relate to that do you
19:23 · ever get tired of The Thrill Is it a
19:25 · tremendous tremendous thrill when you
19:27 · another dumb question I suppose when you
19:29 · get out and you look back and you see
19:31 · the Earth
19:32 · uh just hanging there it must give you
19:35 · some some strange feelings I think it
19:38 · does make all the astronauts that are
19:42 · flowing a bit philosophical
19:43 · I would think so you kind of got to
19:45 · think back and kind of puts it in
19:47 · perspective doesn't it you put the whole
19:49 · earth just in the in your hand you know
19:50 · and it really makes it uh it makes you
19:52 · wonder actually a minor planet is
19:54 · somebody once said
19:56 · um now you haven't been on the moon
19:58 · and uh and yet this was really a
20:01 · triumphant uh space journey because it
20:03 · proved that the backup system does work
20:05 · and prove that the equipment is reliable
20:07 · are you going to fly again
20:10 · well I would like to uh I seem to be
20:12 · disappointed you know going twice to the
20:14 · moon and not quite getting down there
20:15 · however uh down at Houston there are a
20:17 · lot of people who are well qualified and
20:19 · who have not yet flown and so uh my wife
20:22 · won't let me just
20:24 · well I suppose she may have a slight
20:28 · Reasoner not wanting to go through that
20:29 · again Fred how about you
20:31 · but I think the probably the true
20:34 · statement would be that every every guy
20:36 · in the office would like to fly every
20:38 · flight
20:39 · that's really impossible because for
20:42 · instance while we were training two
20:43 · other Crews were training same time 14
20:45 · and 15.
20:46 · and that's really not possible I
20:49 · certainly would personally like to have
20:51 · another chance Jack what are your
20:54 · feelings that's my feelings too I
20:55 · suppose all the fellas would like it to
20:57 · have that unique honor it everything
21:00 · came about in my case so fast that I
21:04 · really you know I was sitting there
21:06 · right on the launch pad and about 30
21:08 · minutes prior to launch when they
21:10 · hauled back the swing arm I told Jim I
21:12 · said you know I really think they're
21:14 · serious about launching me
21:17 · I was trying to think of a question
21:19 · today that you might not have been asked
21:21 · and it's it's pretty tough
21:23 · and this may sound dumb
21:26 · suppose and people have said this they
21:28 · know pretty well technically what the
21:30 · moon was and what it was composed of and
21:33 · that there was no
21:35 · the gravity was 1 6 and there's no air
21:37 · and so forth and so on
21:39 · but supposed to have been some people
21:40 · have said well possibly maybe they're
21:42 · people or civilizations had you know
21:45 · you've heard this right and have arrived
21:47 · there maybe many many years ago and live
21:49 · say underground right with their own
21:52 · type of gravity and oxygen supply and so
21:54 · forth is there anything in the NASA
21:56 · program that would prepare you
21:58 · if you landed on the moon
22:01 · right this sounds like it's not a dumb
22:04 · question and all of a sudden you look
22:05 · over and you see two
22:07 · people
22:09 · fellas coming out of a
22:13 · do they prepare you for that what you
22:15 · would say
22:16 · uh or how you deal with this at all well
22:19 · that doesn't sound strange there's still
22:20 · a lot of people who believe that there
22:21 · are people on the moon but they're
22:22 · living underground I think Jim's going
22:24 · to say that's why they took a bachelor
22:25 · law that's why
22:29 · [Applause]
22:39 · and answered your question about getting
22:41 · philosophical uh we did get a bit
22:43 · philosophical and we we brought you
22:46 · something tonight that we thought maybe
22:47 · you'd like to Oh Yeah from our crew here
22:50 · we know that uh you were a magician at
22:52 · one time and still are as a matter of
22:54 · fact I saw some of your card tricks and
22:56 · so we thought we'd present this little
22:57 · picture to you with the caption perhaps
22:59 · you'd like to read
23:00 · oh it's not great
23:02 · it says I'll read it then I'll show you
23:04 · the picture so she has a beautiful
23:06 · picture it says to the great carsoni you
23:08 · found that out huh
23:10 · do you think you're a magician try
23:12 · making this disappear since your best
23:14 · wishes the Apollo 13 crew and they've
23:15 · all signed it and of course look at that
23:17 · magnificent shot of the Earth from space
23:21 · [Applause]
23:33 · California
23:35 · I will treasure that very very much and
23:37 · I thank you gentlemen I know you've had
23:39 · a long day you know you'll have more
23:41 · plans for this evening and all I can say
23:44 · that you you've been hearing many many
23:45 · times it's it's great to have you back
23:48 · it was a magnificent magnificent feat
23:51 · and I think the whole entire world was
23:53 · tremendously proud of you and it's a
23:54 · great thrill to have you here tonight
23:56 · Jim pleasure thank you thank you
23:58 · [Music]
23:59 · [Applause]
24:01 · [Music]
24:02 · [Applause]
24:04 · [Music]
24:04 · [Applause]