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Nukes, Renewables, and the European Grid Collapse
American Thinker ^ | 1 May, 2025 | Joseph Somsel

Posted on 05/01/2025 4:33:11 AM PDT by MtnClimber

The collapse was predictable and could have been prevented—for a price.

Big sections of the European electric grid had a blackout recently. First reports blamed a frequency dip due to a lack of “spinning reserve.” When frequency gets too low, automatic electrical breakers open, isolating sections of loads and the transmission grid. The power plants can only safely operate within a narrow frequency range (pumps spin too slowly, etc), and they too will isolate and trip to protect themselves from damage.

The classic grid can be imagined as a broad network of spinning gyroscopes, all electrically synchronized to the same frequency. Electric loads try to drag the frequency down and suck energy out of the spinning gyroscopes while power sources add energy to the gyroscopes to maintain the frequency. The power sources are controlled by governors that increase or decrease power input via throttles as necessary. The whole system is finely tuned with governors scattered across the system assigned specific sensitivities called “droop.”

But solar panels have no rotational inertia and windmills far less than the giant hunks of rapidly spinning steel and copper in regular power plants. Nor do they have governors in the usual sense, although they can dump power if the frequency gets too high.

So, if you have too much power coming from power sources that can make no contribution to the rotational inertia, the grid’s responsiveness is reduced, and things can get iffy quickly if the clouds cover the sun or the wind goes calm.

Nuclear power plants are typically some of the most powerful units on a grid and contribute a great deal of rotational inertia due to the huge sizes of their turbines and generators. But they are also some of the most sensitive to frequency disturbances, so they’ll trip off the grid

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: consequences; energy
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1 posted on 05/01/2025 4:33:11 AM PDT by MtnClimber
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To: MtnClimber

Many predicted that this would happen. As usual the left did not listen and chose to believe their own fantasy.


2 posted on 05/01/2025 4:33:27 AM PDT by MtnClimber (For photos of scenery, wildlife and climbing, click on my screen name for my FR home page.)
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To: MtnClimber

For Solar Reliant Systems:

Every Afternoon is a Death Race Against Darkness.


3 posted on 05/01/2025 4:37:57 AM PDT by MMusson ( )
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To: MtnClimber

You’re a peon


4 posted on 05/01/2025 4:39:35 AM PDT by PGalt (Past Peak Civilization?)
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To: MtnClimber
That’s because a reactor needs only 5 to 10 MW to maintain a safe shutdown, but to restart the whole power plant requires hours of heat-up and inspection time, and more critically, maybe 150 MW to start all the huge pumps needed. Historically, it can take 4 or 5 days to bring nukes back online following a grid collapse.

I've always wondered about this but had no idea about the particulars. Thanks for the post!

5 posted on 05/01/2025 4:46:32 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The tree of liberty needs a rope.)
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To: MtnClimber
If the European electricity is unreliable.....

How they expect to manufacture anything....like tanks..guns...machinery....just askn for a friend.

6 posted on 05/01/2025 4:54:07 AM PDT by spokeshave (Proud Boys, Angry Dads. Grumpy Grandads & Curmudgeon<p.s)
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To: Carry_Okie

I worked a quarter as a student at a large coal fired steam plant. One of the biggest powerplants in the country. It is still operational today. 3.16 GW, so 3160 MW. That’s a *lot* of juice!

It had substantial startup boilers (separate from the main steam generator boilers) and natural gas power combustion turbine generators on site so that in a grid down situation you had enough steam and electrical power to do a cold startup. It is not something you ever want to have to do.


7 posted on 05/01/2025 5:03:10 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: FreedomPoster
It had substantial startup boilers (separate from the main steam generator boilers) and natural gas power combustion turbine generators on site so that in a grid down situation you had enough steam and electrical power to do a cold startup. It is not something you ever want to have to do.

Yep, in a plant that big, there's lots of mass involved that means one cannot go too fast. Ramping temperatures puts a lot of thermal shock to pipes, valves, and moving elements. Dynamic load variation and heating/cooling creates situations when things break, and when things break, one must reverse course, and sometimes too quickly. I'd bet it can make quite the cascading effect.

8 posted on 05/01/2025 5:09:46 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The tree of liberty needs a rope.)
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To: MtnClimber
Europe's energy policy is akin to deciding you want to learn how to swim so you get on a row boat and rowing out to the middle of the Atlantic Ocean so you can drill holes in the bottom of the bat to sink it so you can swim back to shore.
9 posted on 05/01/2025 5:24:14 AM PDT by rdcbn1 (TV )
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To: MtnClimber
So, in the AC/DC fight, Edison's AC won and Westinghouse's (Tesla) DC lost.

We became dependent on frequency and therefore rotational momentum of spinning turbines.

Later we tried hooking up DC power solar panels and highly variable AC wind power to an AC grid.

I'll ignore FDR's contribution to public utility commissions (PUC's).

What could go wrong?

10 posted on 05/01/2025 5:29:49 AM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (Grew up in 3-D/B4TV)
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To: MtnClimber

It has to be a nightmare to manage a grid with a high dependency on renewable energy (solar/wind). The higher the dependence on renewable energy the lower the stability of the grid.

The most economical and stable grid would have nuclear plants that meet the minimum power demand of the grid added to coal plants that have the capacity to produce 45% of the needed power to maximum peak demand with natural gas turbines capacity added to meet the need of 5% to expected maximum demand and 5% surplus power for unexpected events.

The natural turbines are important to a stable grid as they can respond instantly to power demand changes and can be used as loads to keep the voltage and current phased properly in the power legs.


11 posted on 05/01/2025 5:31:15 AM PDT by bosco24
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To: MtnClimber

Yeah it was predictable. Because it was designed that way.


12 posted on 05/01/2025 5:35:47 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: MtnClimber

“As usual the left did not listen and chose to believe their own fantasy.”

And here in Colorado it’s full speed ahead for ‘green’ energy.


13 posted on 05/01/2025 5:41:34 AM PDT by dljordan (The Rewards of Tolerance are Treachery and Betrayal)
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To: Aevery_Freeman
So, in the AC/DC fight, Edison's AC won and Westinghouse's (Tesla) DC lost.

I'll have to re-read my history, but I believe Tesla invented AC generation and output. Wasn't it Edison who worked hard to
defame the 'Tesla' electrical current and promote his vaunted, albeit impractical, Direct Current to the masses?

14 posted on 05/01/2025 5:42:11 AM PDT by Thommas (The snout of the camel is already under the tent.)
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To: Aevery_Freeman

So, in the AC/DC fight, Edison’s AC won and Westinghouse’s (Tesla) DC lost.


Well AC/DC certainly sold a lot more records than Tesla.


15 posted on 05/01/2025 5:43:00 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Thommas

Edison was promoting DC and envisioned little neighborhood power plants because of the problems transmitting DC over a distance. Tesla promoted AC which can go long distances without significant line loss. Edison ended up buying an elderly elephant from a circus and electrocuted it before a crowd of people to bolster his claim of how dangerous AC is. The depreciation was brutal.


16 posted on 05/01/2025 6:01:35 AM PDT by Clay Moore (My pistol identifies as a cordless hole punch. )
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To: Clay Moore

Repercussion (bloody spellcheck)


17 posted on 05/01/2025 6:03:27 AM PDT by Clay Moore (My pistol identifies as a cordless hole punch. )
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To: Aevery_Freeman
So, in the AC/DC fight, Edison's AC won and Westinghouse's (Tesla) DC lost.

You have that exactly backwards. Edison was heavily invested in DC. Westinghouse saw the advantages of AC power, and Tesla had the missing piece of the puzzle that Westinghouse needed… the AC motor.

Edison (who was very nasty person) fought back using every dirty trick in the book including talking NY State into using the electric chair. Edison wanted to call it Westinghousing someone instead of electrocuting someone. As I said, Edison was a nasty person.

But in the end, Westinghouse won and fortuinately AC became the global standard.

18 posted on 05/01/2025 7:19:46 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: MtnClimber

Inevitable with treehuggers designing anything. Spinning reserve is as basic to grid design as ......... any food article in anything you would eat. Geesh.
Not designing for that is as blinkered as not having a power plant running in a receiving city that is at the end of a loooong transmission line. Will not work. NIMBY is a guideline, not a rule.


19 posted on 05/01/2025 8:20:33 AM PDT by bobbo666
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To: MtnClimber

Texas has had blackouts and near blackouts for years with the crisis spawned by cold weather demand and doldrums winds that often accompany these cold snaps which stop or freeze their wind turbines. If their back up generators cannot pick up the load then the inevitable blackouts occur. The Climate Change Cult has pushed to close fossil fuel and nuclear plants in the US and will soon give us the same blackouts experienced in Spain.


20 posted on 05/01/2025 8:45:41 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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