NTSB releases black box data from Blackhawk DC plane crash.

Twitter / X / Citizen's Free Press ^ | February 19, 2025 | Staff

[Red Badger]

 BREAKING: The NTSB just dropped the Blackhawk helicopter’s black box recordings from the deadly Washington, DC crash with a commercial jet—and it’s a jaw-dropper. Here’s what it tells us:

 Altitude Chaos: The chopper’s altimeter was off—way off. Pilot read 300 feet, instructor saw 400, but the real number? 278 feet—well above the 200-foot ceiling. They were flying blind on bad data.

 Missed Calls: Air traffic control screamed “pass behind the jet”—but the pilots didn’t hear it. The mic was keyed at the worst moment, drowning out the warning. Seconds later? Boom.  Last-Second Panic: The jet’s pilots tried to pull up—nose pitched up just before impact. Too late. The Blackhawk crew? No clue what hit them ‘til it did.

 Night Vision Goggles: They were wearing them, but did they obscure the jet’s lights? Experts say it’s possible they locked onto the wrong target in DC’s crowded skies.

This wasn’t just one mistake—it was a cascade of failures. 67 lives gone. NTSB says a prelim report’s coming soon, but this black box is already screaming: something was seriously broken that night. Share this—people need to know.

[dfwgator]

Helluva price to pay for being stylish.

[kelly4c]

So far I’ve read at least one grieving widow has filed a lawsuit against the FAA and the military. Cant say I blame them.

[ALPAPilot]

If I remember correctly, a 40 foot discrepancy between altimeters is the max allowed on the ground. I think that is for both civilian a military aviation.

[SMARTY]

None of the DEI crap should apply to positions that bear on public safety and security.

It’s time to shout that out loud and clearly

These people did NOT NEED TO LOSE THEIR LIVES!

[logi_cal869]

Exactly. I’ve stated such since the beginning.

As soon as they identified an instrument conflict, the flight should have terminated - NOT continued - ESPECIALLY in urban, congested airspace at low altitude. At a minimum this was an instructor FAIL.

For the record, the instructor was CWO2 Andrew Eaves...a name I’ve only seen in the media ONCE.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14344975/black-hawk-pilot-identified-andrew-evans-dc-plane-helicopter-crash.html

That includes the Crew Chief Ryan O’Hara.

The reasons for the conflict we’ll have to wait for the NTSB report (doubtful the prelim will elaborate).

IMHO they should never have been flying in an urban area with NVG (thermal only, but merely one link in a long chain of failures). Hegseth has his work cut out for him.

“’These are our top pilots doing this National Capital Region.’” is a pathetic statement in the wake of this avoidable collision. It smacks of damage control for the status quo, and it ENRAGES me.

[ALPAPilot]

Driving VFR through class B airspace with both pilots using NVG’s is a very bad idea.

[ALPAPilot]

I believe the 200 foot restriction is above MSL which would be determined on the barometric altimeter (assuming it was set correctly to the outside air pressure). The radar altimeter gives the height above the highest obstacle (e.g. the trees on the shoreline)

[FreedomPoster]

Great point.

[verum ago]

What the heck were these pilots doing using barometric altimeters instead of the radar altimeter for primary altitude reference for low level night flight through complex, busy airspace over densely populated areas?.

If I understood my former helicopter pilot uncle correctly overt the phone the other night, clutter. At low altitude a radar altimeter in an urban area can get a little, uh, schizophrenic as you pass over objects. As an example, imagine flying at, say, 300 ft. You pass over a 10 story building- your altimeter suddenly drops to 200 ft in response, then once you're clear it pops back up to 300 ft. In terms of your ground clearance, it is of course actually correct, but for low level flying having the thing bouncing around wildly like that can be a net distraction. So you keep an eye on it but generally roll with a different source of altitude information and rely more on knowing what your altitude should be and if there are charted obstacles that reach that high.

Put another way, ever had the collision avoidance on a newer car constantly beeping at you unnecessarily? At some point it's not making you safer, it's just distracting you from the job at hand.

It's different for aircraft on approach / departure: the approach paths are basically fixed and typically the obstructions are known and taller buildings aren't allowed and/or there are procedural controls to handle the issue. But for a helo flying not a totally set path, you can't control for crap on the ground so well.

Of course, if you're supposed to be at 200 ft max and your radar altimeter reads over that at all (and you're not overflying a quarry or open pit mine...), you're too damn high, period. But we already know from the transcripts that the helo crew had acknowledged, at least to each other, that they were way over their altitude limit. So in the end they may well have been actually paying attention to the radar altimeter; they just didn't act properly on the information.

[caddie]

All this is evasive... focusing on small details instead of the big picture.

Stupid command structure allowing such NVG tight pattern training flights in glide paths of busy airport at a time when it was plane after plane after plane. THAT is the big screw up. In retrospect, incomprehensible.

Hairsplitting over AM/FM/digital and mike keystrokes is just an attempt to keep high ranking people from taking the hit for this.

The helicopter pilots were dumb and flying sloppily but they never should have been flying this sort of mission.

It's a command fault.

DEI is another matter.

Global problem with military is the characteristic punishment of intelligent people who point out obviously stupid and crazy orders.

Ought to be some means of injecting some brains and process improvement into the system. Not holding my breath when I read about the BS postmortem on this screw up.

[Gene Eric]

+1

[Gene Eric]

wonder if the pilots often disregard the altimeters believing they’re unreliable

[Skwor]

Ya because failing to trust your instruments for night ops is just business as usual.....

Good grief the level of ignorance to accept such conditions and still flying AND above your ceiling in a high traffic zone..

This is just ugly on a whole other level. Command failure along with personal error, how did those pilots even entertain to fly with those discrepancies.

[Justa]

Imo the fault all along was the disparity in altimeter readings.

I think they kept going back over the river to avoid ground clutter so they could get good altimeter readings from the radio altimeter because the barometric altimeters were giving different readings. So they stayed with ‘known good’ radio altimeter because no ground clutter over the river. I think the flight plan zig zagging over the river indicates this. Looking for good reading and trying to eliminate bad barometric altimeter inputs. Possibly they were trying to use the known-good to get error estimates on the barometric altimeters?

I think the abrupt increase in altitude before the crash indicates pilot(s) transferring altimeter readings to one which indicated too-low so they pulled up when they should have remained on radio altimeter over the river.

Unfortunately, they’re probably going to have their post-mortem immortalized in one of those stupid Army PMCS comic books. Deadly serious PMCS failures and cautionary advice -in a comic book.

[rdcbn1]

That is generally correct and it is also correct that radar alimeters don't work so well in areas with ground clutter.

The measurement error in an aircraft barometric altimeter system does not have the necessary accuracy to provide reliable enough altitude info for a helo to fly through a flight corridor that intersects the final approach of commercial airline traffic in busy Class B airspace at or around the 300 level regardless of whether it is AGL or MSL.

One possible contributing factor to the mishap seems to be that the helo was flying through what amounts to a VFR flight corridor under an approach path under VFR flight rules using night vision equipment that makes it very hard to operate under VFR.

The simple solution to this would have been to schedule the night training opps later in the evening when commercial traffic had thinned out and ATC controller work load had become much reduced to reduce the chance of mid air.

The mid air occured at 8:47pm which still a high traffic density time at that airport.

[mouse1]

A couple things bother me about this. Why was her name being released delayed. Why was her social media scrubbed. Why was there no condolences mentioned by the Bidens since she was a member of the white house team.

I have more questions then answers

[SuperLuminal]

Whether it is ship collisions or airplane collisions, the U.S. military needs serious flushing and rebuilding...

FAA issues have been around for a long time, thanks to obama...
Relatives of the airline passengers involved in the Reagan National airport disaster need to start suing obama...

[plain talk]

“The chopper’s altimeter was off—way off. Pilot read 300 feet, instructor saw 400, but the real number? 278 feet—well above the 200-foot ceiling. “

... then they should have been flying much lower, right?

[Red Badger]

The situation at that airport was a disaster just waiting to happen.

Whoever thought a military training mission in a crowded airspace at night with night vision goggles on was a good idea????...............

[Fireone]

My question, as well.
Also, why would they be allowed a pattern that crosses the approach of any incoming aircraft!
Seems common sense would see that problem in a second.