DUNE 2

BEJ

[nagant]

As movies go Dune I was a good movie, but was deeply disturbing in its underlying message. The message was that the people sitting on underground oil reserves are justified in killing everyone else regardless of any character traits.

[sphinx]

I liked Timothée Chalamet in The King. It’s his only role that impressed me. I try not to be biased against actors because of their physical appearance, and I credit actors who don’t conform to the obvious stereotypes to which the studios seem to be addicted, but TC rubs me the wrong way. I was glad that they made a joke about this in Dune 1, when the Jason Momoa character asks him if he (Paul Atreides) has put on any muscle. Paul of course answers, “no.” Timothee at least seems to have a sense of humor about it, but if I were him, I’d be hitting the gym.

Momoa also has enough of a sense of humor that he’s done those commercials in which he takes off the prosthetic muscles, chest and sixpack for comedic effect. I don’t watch spandex movies and he’s not someone I watch out for, but has he ever played a role in which he plays a normal human being?

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

The part they missed was that Paul's motive was always to save as many people as possible. His ability to see into the future told him that down certain paths lay either mass extinction, or humanity becoming subordinate to machine-based artificial intelligence. But because he could only catch glimpses of possible futures, he had to take risks to try to reach the best path.

That's why his wife's faith in him was so important - she trusted him to do the right thing even if it didn't seem like that in the moment. But they basically undid all that and made him seem like a megalomaniac for his own ego, which was very far from the truth.

[Notthemomma]

YMMV, but I enjoyed it, despite the girlboss-ification.

The religious aspect of Dune is not an attack on Christianity per se, but on organized religion, taking the stance that there is some truth and decency in the origins of religions but that they are corrupted for their leaders’/controllers’ benefit. The Bene Gesserit are very Catholic mixed with sorcery, pharmacy, paranormal, and DNA manipulation. The Fremen are a very Arab/Muslim/Native American mix with love of the land and its creatures but still looking to a mystical omnipotent savior. The Emperor and other great houses are very British Colonial mainstream with watered down, almost unstated, beliefs other than they’re better than the heathens they’re saving/exploiting, and fully justified in all their actions because of their advanced natures.

Herbert’s original theme for the book (1965) was a what if, what if the economy were based on water, and not oil? And then he built around that them some of the most astounding science fiction and political science I’ve ever read. It was like reading Shogun meets Heinlein meets Star Wars (though of course, Star Wars was later). The movies, all of them, barely touch the many SciFi facets of the book—the imperial conditioning for mentats and doctors, the cloning and Face Dancers, the mind-warping and space-warping of spice and the altered humans (navigators). And the soap opera, space opera interpersonal thoughts and actions of the movies cannot do justice to the book. But if you’re hungry for SciFi movies/series, you will not want to miss Dune, Dune 2, and the upcoming Dune series. I can heartily recommend the FireFly and Babylon5 series and movies, and the Asimov TV series (Foundation), and the Beacon 23 series, to fill that hunger. The Halo series is not bad either, though I have no idea whether is is true to the games, as I played only a few levels waaaaay back when.

Read all the Dune prequels to get a really good feel for the Dune universe and the great houses and religions. The Dune sequels, written by Herbert, are disappointing.

And for really good Space Opera, read the Honor Harrington series of books and offshoots, by David Weber. Now THAT would make a wonderful SciFi series, and very doable given today’s FX and computer generated materials.

[blueunicorn6]

It’s good as entertainment.

It’s poor as philosophy.

It stinks as history.

[Rockingham]

I am not sure that you are correct. I think the nub of the problem is that in science fiction, the material and setting can generate so much attention and dramatic tension that they can overwhelm the humanity in the story. The best science fiction though resists that trend and shows our old failings and virtues still at work.

Twilight Zone, for example, is remembered for the quality of its writing and the humanity of its flawed and recognizable characters. Similarly, X-Files, focused on the relationship between Mulder and Scully and the deception, misdirection, and menace they often encountered. Many other examples are possible.