[Tell It Right]

My take: with Trump we’ll go back to drill baby drill, energy costs will go down, and Russia won’t have as much money to do war.

[z3n]

I would suggest that it would be okay to let Russia have Donbass and some of the other heavily ethnic Russia areas, IF they agreed to take future Russian deportees from Ukraine without argument.
Without that agreement, in another 10 years Russia could be invading new border regions in Ukraine again claiming they are Russian anyway.

The hardliners would hate this compromise, because not returning to the 2019 lines is like rewarding the Russian aggression. While I would never admit this at the negotiating table, I actually agree that you have to deal with the reality on the ground today. How many more thousands and thousands of people have to be killed because of where a border is drawn?

[MNDude]

The pro war people have ensured Ukraine is in a very bad negotiating position.

[PIF]

Russia says West should negotiate end to Ukraine war based on current reality, in other words, on Russian terms.

[philman_36]

The Wall Street Journal reported that Trump’s transition team...

WHO in the transition team? Unnamed sources yet again?

No credence in this reporting if names aren't given.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

I've already seen reports about Trump's proposal that go something like this: immediate cease-fire freezing existing lines of control, no Ukraine entry into NATO for 20 years, de-militarized zone to be patrolled by someone other than US troops.

I don't really care what's done, as long as we don't need to keep paying for it. The stories about billions being sent to Ukraine while destitute North Carolina hurricane victims get checks for $750 were nauseating.

[Brian Griffin]

"The linguistic composition of the uyezds (povits) of Taurida in 1897. Ukrainians in yellow, Russians in red, Crimean Tatars in green, Germans in gray, Yiddish speakers in blue, and others in purple. (in Ukrainian)"

"Taurida Governorate was an administrative-territorial unit (guberniya) of the Russian Empire. It included the territory of the Crimean Peninsula and the mainland between the lower Dnieper River with the coasts of the Black Sea and Sea of Azov. It formed after Taurida Oblast was abolished in 1802 during the course of Paul I's administrative reform of the territories of the former Crimean Khanate which were annexed by Russia in 1783. The governorate's centre was the city of Simferopol. The name of the province was derived from Taurida (Greek: Ταυρική), a historical name for Crimea.

"Today the territory of the governorate is part of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts of Ukraine, which were annexed by Russia but remain internationally recognized as part of Ukraine."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurida_Governorate

"Taurida Oblast (Russian: Таврическая область, Tavricheskaya oblast′) was an oblast (province) of the Russian Empire. It roughly corresponded to most of the Crimean Peninsula and parts of the Southern Ukraine regions. It was created out of territories of the Crimean Khanate, which Russia annexed in 1783. In 1796 it was merged into the Novorossiya Governorate. The name Taurida comes from the old Greek name for the area, Tauris, as in ancient times several Greek city-states had developed colonial outposts in the area.

"The oblast was created under the Imperial ukase of February 1784 signed by Catherine the Great."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurida_Oblast

[FlyingEagle]

Tell your Zelinsky and your Biden Harris to just take their Corruption Uki War Grift to the Swiss Bank and take the deal on offer from your Putin buddy.

[pierrem15]

The current reality is that in 2 1/2 years Russia has thrown almost its entire land army, available air assets and obtained substantial assistance from Iran and NK and still hasn't defeated Ukraine.

Recalling that Trump had the US military grease 300+ Wagner mercs in Syria over breakfast, the mere possibility of Trump putting the US thumb on the scale unlike the current cowards in DC should make the Russians sober up.

Ukraine will have to make territorial concessions, but whatever deal Trump puts forth will also cause indigestion in Moscow.

[Navy Patriot]

Aww, Gee Whiz, another setback for GloboHomoPedoNazi Ukraine, Zelensky and Degenerates, worldwide.

[Brian Griffin]

WIKI

Both Germany and Great Britain were dependent on imports of food and raw materials, most of which had to be shipped across the Atlantic Ocean. The Blockade of Germany was a naval operation conducted by the Allied Powers to stop the supply of raw materials and foodstuffs reaching the Central Powers. The German Kaiserliche Marine was mainly restricted to the German Bight and used commerce raiders and unrestricted submarine warfare for a counter-blockade. The German Board of Public Health in December 1918 stated that 763,000 German civilians had died during the Allied blockade, although an academic study in 1928 put the death toll at 424,000 people.

The blockade was maintained for eight months after the Armistice in November 1918, into the following year of 1919. Foodstuffs imports into Germany were controlled by the Allies after the Armistice with Germany until Germany signed the Treaty of Versailles in June 1919. In March 1919, Churchill informed the House of Commons, that the ongoing blockade was a success and “Germany is very near starvation.” From January 1919 to March 1919, Germany refused to agree to Allied demands that Germany surrender its merchant ships to Allied ports to transport food supplies. Some Germans considered the armistice to be a temporary cessation of the war and knew, if fighting broke out again, their ships would be seized. Over the winter of 1919, the situation became desperate and Germany finally agreed to surrender its fleet in March. The Allies then allowed for the import of 270,000 tons of foodstuffs.

Both German and non-German observers have argued that these were the most devastating months of the blockade for German civilians, though disagreement persists as to the extent and who is truly at fault. According to Max Rubner 100,000 German civilians died due to the continuation blockade after the armistice. In the UK, Labour Party member and anti-war activist Robert Smillie issued a statement in June 1919 condemning continuation of the blockade, claiming 100,000 German civilians had died as a result.

France had lost 1.3 million soldiers, including 25% of French men aged 18–30, as well as 400,000 civilians. France had also been more physically damaged than any other nation; the so-called zone rouge (Red Zone), the most industrialized region and the source of most coal and iron ore in the north-east, had been devastated, and in the final days of the war, mines had been flooded and railways, bridges and factories destroyed. Clemenceau intended to ensure the security of France, by weakening Germany economically, militarily, territorially and by supplanting Germany as the leading producer of steel in Europe.

Together with the French, the British favoured putting German war criminals on trial, and included the Kaiser in this. Already in 1916 Herbert Asquith had declared the intention “to bring to justice the criminals, whoever they be and whatever their station”, and a resolution of the war cabinet in 1918 reaffirmed this intent. Lloyd George declared that the British people would not accept a treaty that did not include terms on this, though he wished to limit the charges solely to violation of the 1839 treaty guaranteeing Belgian neutrality. The British were also well aware that the Kaiser having sought refuge in the Netherlands meant that any trial was unlikely to take place and therefore any Article demanding it was likely to be a dead letter.

The treaty was comprehensive and complex in the restrictions imposed upon the post-war German armed forces (the Reichswehr). The provisions were intended to make the Reichswehr incapable of offensive action and to encourage international disarmament. Germany was to demobilize sufficient soldiers by 31 March 1920 to leave an army of no more than 100,000 men in a maximum of seven infantry and three cavalry divisions. The treaty laid down the organisation of the divisions and support units, and the General Staff was to be dissolved. Military schools for officer training were limited to three, one school per arm, and conscription was abolished. Private soldiers and non-commissioned officers were to be retained for at least twelve years and officers for a minimum of 25 years, with former officers being forbidden to attend military exercises. To prevent Germany from building up a large cadre of trained men, the number of men allowed to leave early was limited.

The number of civilian staff supporting the army was reduced and the police force was reduced to its pre-war size, with increases limited to population increases; paramilitary forces were forbidden. The Rhineland was to be demilitarized, all fortifications in the Rhineland and 50 kilometres (31 miles) east of the river were to be demolished and new construction was forbidden. Military structures and fortifications on the islands of Heligoland and Düne were to be destroyed. Germany was prohibited from the arms trade, limits were imposed on the type and quantity of weapons and prohibited from the manufacture or stockpile of chemical weapons, armoured cars, tanks and military aircraft. The German navy was allowed six pre-dreadnought battleships and was limited to a maximum of six light cruisers (not exceeding 6,000 long tons (6,100 t)), twelve destroyers (not exceeding 800 long tons (810 t)) and twelve torpedo boats (not exceeding 200 long tons (200 t)) and was forbidden submarines. The manpower of the navy was not to exceed 15,000 men, including manning for the fleet, coast defences, signal stations, administration, other land services, officers and men of all grades and corps. The number of officers and warrant officers was not allowed to exceed 1,500 men. Germany surrendered eight battleships, eight light cruisers, forty-two destroyers, and fifty torpedo boats for decommissioning. Thirty-two auxiliary ships were to be disarmed and converted to merchant use. Article 198 prohibited Germany from having an air force, including naval air forces, and required Germany to hand over all aerial related materials. In conjunction, Germany was forbidden to manufacture or import aircraft or related material for a period of six months following the signing of the treaty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

A very serious question NEVER addressed in all this....

Why is it Trump's responsibility in the moment, in a world of over 190 nations, and world with a UN and a world with and EU more populous than the US.

Besides, until inauguration day this is the fact.

Trump was the 45th president. Joe Biden is the 46th and CURRENT president. Trump will not be the 47th president until January 20th.

This is November....

Additionally, these United States are only 4 percent of the world's population. Why is it the responsibility of 4 percent to fix the mess of the other 96 percent of the world's population, and all those other governments?

Answer: because the neo-con, neo-lib proxy war types has no real solution.

[Brian Griffin]

“Austria’s neutrality law of 1955 is based on three pillars: no membership in a military alliance, no permanent deployment of foreign troops and no participation in foreign wars. They all concern military and security issues. Austria also commits itself to defend its neutrality “with all means available,” meaning that it is an armed neutrality.”

https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/austrian-neutrality-does-not-mean-disengaging-from-international-affairs-instead-it-demands-an-intense-involvement

Austrian State Treaty of 1955

https://web.archive.org/web/20170709133128/http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/docs/pdf/1957/TS0058.pdf

[Brian Griffin]

WIKI

The Moscow Peace Treaty was signed by Finland and the Soviet Union on 12 March 1940, and the ratifications were exchanged on 21 March. It marked the end of the 105-day Winter War, upon which Finland ceded border areas to the Soviet Union.

Finland ceded approximately half of Finnish Karelia, exceeding the amount of territory demanded by the Soviets before the war. The ceded area included Finland’s industrial centre, the city of Viipuri (Finland’s second-largest city [Population Register] or fourth-largest city [Church and Civil Register], depending on the census data), Käkisalmi, Sortavala, Suojärvi, and the whole of Viipuri Bay (with its islands). Much of this territory was still held by the Finnish Army. Military troops and remaining civilians were hastily evacuated inside the new border: 422,000 Finns, i.e. 12% of Finland’s population, left their homes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Peace_Treaty

[Brian Griffin]

WIKI

The Moscow Armistice was signed between Finland on one side and the Soviet Union and United Kingdom on the other side on 19 September 1944, ending the Continuation War. The Armistice restored the Moscow Peace Treaty of 1940, with a number of modifications.

The final peace treaty between Finland and many of the Allies was signed in Paris in 1947.

The conditions for peace were similar to what had been agreed in the Moscow Peace Treaty of 1940: Finland was obliged to cede parts of Karelia and Salla, as well as certain islands in the Gulf of Finland. The new armistice also handed all of Petsamo to the Soviet Union, and Finland was further compelled to lease Porkkala to the Soviet Union for a period of fifty years (the area was returned to Finnish control in 1956). Territories ceded to the Soviet Union constituted approximately 11.50% (44,106.23 km2) of Finland’s territory (382,561.23 km2) prior to the Winter War and the Continuation War as dictated by the Treaty of Tartu.

Other conditions included Finnish payment of nearly $300,000,000 ($5.2 billion in today’s US dollars) in the form of various commodities over six years to the Soviet Union as war reparations. Finland also agreed to legalise the Communist Party of Finland (after it had made some changes to the party rules) and ban parties that the Soviet Union considered fascist. Further, the individuals that the Soviets considered responsible for the war had to be arrested and put on trial, the best-known case being that of Risto Ryti. The armistice compelled Finland to drive German troops from its territory, leading to a military campaign in Lapland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Armistice

[bert]

By the time President Trump is actually in a position to act regarding the Ukraine/Russian War, Russia will be economically dead

The economic cancer affecting russia is presently late stage 4.

[Brian Griffin]

“Risto Heikki Ryti...was a Finnish politician who served as the fifth president of Finland from 1940 to 1944.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risto_Ryti

[Brian Griffin]

Vance:

“What I would like to do, and what I think fundamentally is achievable here with American leadership — but you never know till you have the conversation — is you freeze the territorial lines somewhere close to where they are right now. That’s number one. Number two is you guarantee both Kyiv’s independence but also its neutrality. It’s the fundamental thing the Russians have asked from the beginning,”

“I’m not naïve here. I think the Russians have asked for a lot of things dishonestly, but neutrality is clearly something that they see as existential for them. And then three, there’s going to have to be some American security assistance over the long term. I think those three things are certainly achievable, yes,”

https://news.antiwar.com/2024/07/17/republican-hawks-want-mike-pompeo-and-tom-cotton-in-trumps-cabinet/

[Kazan]

The reality is eight to 20 hour blackouts in Kiev starting next month when winter starts.

Ukraine either surrenders or continues to lose territory. Those are the only two options.

[Kazan]

What about this reality don't you understand?

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-shortage-energy-russia-missile-attack-nuclear-infrastructure-research/

Ukraine faces toughest winter yet as energy shortages loom

Kyiv faces daily blackouts of eight to 20 hours amid an onslaught of Russian attacks.