Posted on 10/24/2024 9:59:29 AM PDT by fwdude
I have some questions for Christians of the "instant glorification" theological belief after death. Do the departed Christians retain some conscious awareness of the goings-on in creation, on Earth, and popular entertainment often depicts?
Do they "look down on us," particularly their loved ones? Are they even able to? Are they able to see, and grieve over, how truly bad the ones still remaining really are?
I know this opens a lot of theological questions regarding the nature and fate of the dead, but it has intrigued me for a long time.
Personally, I think they are unaware of the happenings on Earth. They would be grieved to an unbearable degree to see the relative wickedness of those whom they loved still living, and that is not possible in their state of "rest" in the presence of their Savior.
Ping.
Paul talked about unexplainable beauty, third heaven. Don’t think anyone really knows.
Watch a few NDE videos and you start to wonder about the persistence of selfishness. People cross over and suddenly they couldn’t care less about the bereft loved ones being left behind, they just want to stay and enjoy that glorious afterlife.
I have always wondered how happy one can be in Heaven, when able to see loved ones suffering downstairs.
We don’t get all the answers here, and faith must suffice.
I have always thought that after death, the goings on in this spiritual plane on Earth are simply not worth paying attention to those with God, even out of simple curiosity.
It is like reading an article on the Internet that talks about something as mundane and inconsequential as how to remove pebbles from the tread of the tires on your car. And that extends to everything, even a nuclear war.
Nobody with God cares. They probably figure “They will all understand when they get here, no matter what happened on their physical plane.”
And any soul with God would be viewed as an oddity for even being mildly curious about what goes on here because it is so inconsequential...comparatively speaking.
That is how I see it...:)
I think the answer is more obvious than you think.
Ironically, there is a certain degree of an all-consuming selfishness in Christian theology. We are to forsake all things to obtain that one Object that benefits us. This includes loved ones. In fact, if our regard for them is not HATRED relative to the Kingdom of God, then there is a problem.
Good answer.
Don’t know. I’ve never died.
We are all dead, some of us just don’t know it yet.
When I was in firearms training for my job as correctional officer, I felt one of my uncles who had passed 20 years earlier by my side and helping me through it. I ended up as the top female shooter of the class. I never sensed his present prior to that, nor afterwards. But it was a strong feeling, and I knew exactly who was with me.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22instant+glorification%22&ia=web
sometimes you have to define the terms before discussion.
some ideas above
but better answers are you own personal reading of God’s word with the help of the Holy Spirit.
I felt my mother’s presence at her funeral when my daughter sang. Hard to describe, but it was something like cool brisk morning air in the mountains.
I told her that Mom approved.
[[Do the departed Christians retain some conscious awareness of the goings-on in creation, on Earth,]]
Some argue that because there is no more cryign and sorrow in heaven, then NO, they do not remember-
Those that go to hell are said to not know what is going on either despite the analogy in the rich man poor man parable “The dead know nothing”
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten.
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 5. - For the living know that they shall die. This is added in confirmation of the statement in ver. 4. The living have at least the consciousness that they will soon have to die, and this leads them to work while it is day, to employ their faculties worthily, to make use of opportunities, to enjoy and profit by the present. They have a certain fixed event to which they must look forward; and they have not to stand idle, lamenting their fate, but their duty and their happiness is to accept the inevitable and make the best of it. But the dead know not anything. They are cut off from the active, bustling world; their work is done; they have nothing to expect, nothing to labor for. What passes upon earth affects them not; the knowledge of it reaches them no longer. Aristotle’s idea was that the dead did know something, in a hazy and indistinct way, of what went on in the upper world, and were in some slight degree influenced thereby, but not to such a degree as to change happiness into misery, or vice versa (’Eth. Nicom.,’ 1:10 and 11). Neither have they any more a reward; i.e. no fruit for labor done. There is no question here about future retribution in another world. The gloomy view of the writer at this moment precludes all idea of such an adjustment of anomalies after death. For the memory of them is forgotten. They have not even the poor reward of being remembered by loving posterity, which in the mind of an Oriental was an eminent blessing, to be much desired. There is a paronomasia in zeker, “memory,” and sakar, “reward,” which, as Plumptre suggests, may be approximately represented in English by the words “record” and “reward.”
[[I have always wondered how happy one can be in Heaven, when able to see loved ones suffering downstairs.]]
See my post above- many feel that there is no remembrance because there is no sorrow in heaven- to remember loved ones back on earth would bring sorrow it is argued- I personally think they might have a point- (it’s not that they won’t recognize their saved loved ones when they pass on and enter heaven too though- they should and rejoice with them, but until that time? I just don’t know, but think the memory is not present while their loved ones are back on earth- either that or they just look forward to meeting them again)
ping for later
I have thought about that often too, as I suppose we all do… :-)
I guess that is the mystery of faith… :-)
My belief is that in the presence of their Savior, they wouldn’t care about “worldly things”. When visiting the Sistine Chapel, do you think about the dust on the floor?
So why do our deceased love ones make us aware of their presence? I lost two siblings and each have given me undeniable physical events that they were with me? Each time I have tried to believe they were amazing coincidences but can not understand how.
Perhaps there is a 'great cloud of witnesses', cheering on the faithful in their race. Regardless, we shouldn't get too hung up on whether departed loved ones can see us, but rather that if the departed family or friend, fought the good fight, was faithful to Christ and now rests in him, we can do so as well through Christ as they did! Take heart and run the race with renewed spirit.
Nobody knows and that is the way it is suppose to be. It is all speculation derived from one’s interpretation of the Bible.
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