What happens to those who die and do not believe?

Catholic Answers ^

[Angelino97]

It depends. If you mean, “What happens to those who die rejecting Christ?” the Church’s answer is uncompromising: They will go to hell.

But no one goes to hell by accident. If someone is simply ignorant of the name of Christ through no fault of his own, there is no sin in that. He has not rejected Christ. Moreover, we know Christ is not constrained by our knowledge. He can work in a heart even when that heart is only dimly aware of it.

Jesus speaks of this in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. The ones judged here are “the nations”—those outside the visible communion of the Church. How are they judged? By the way they responded to Christ when he came to them in disguise. “I was sick and you visited me; hungry, and you fed me; thirsty and you gave me something to drink.” How do the sheep and the goats respond? With surprise.

The point is, we may not know it, but Christ comes to us even when we don’t (or can’t) come to him. This is why the Church counsels us to hope and pray for the dead. We must not pretend we know what God is up to in the lives of others. We know where the Church is. We do not know where it is not.

[Elsie]

  if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken,

 

 

 

HMMMmmm...

---

---

 

Doctrine and Covenants

Section 114 http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/114?lang=eng

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Far West, Missouri, 17 April 1838 (see History of the Church, 3:23).

 

Church positions held by those who are not faithful will be given to others.

---

1. Verily thus saith the Lord: It is wisdom in my servant David W. Patten, that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can, and make a disposition of his merchandise, that he may perform a mission unto me next spring, in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto all the world.

2. For verily thus saith the Lord, that inasmuch as there are those among you who deny my name, others shall be planted in their stead and receive their bishopric.

Amen.

 

 

Sorry to inform the 'faithful'; but Dave died on October 25, 1838

[Elsie]

There was no NON answer. My answer was in #195, which you seem to have not read.

Well, maybe you DID read it but decided to avoid responding to it for some reason.

[Elsie]

... the foundational principles of continuing revelation through the Lord’s servants the Prophets, Apostles, etc.

NIV Romans 15:4
  For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

---

I've found nothing in the KJV that mentions anything to be written in the future that would change the Christian doctrine that is found in the existing bible.

 

 

Speaking of which, just what parts were removed or changed?

 

SLC accepts EVERYTHING in the KJV bible, or else it would NOT be in the Quad.

[Elsie]

I see a few scriptures on false teaching and false teachers, and not one specific regarding doctrine which is precisely where the Christian Church falls on its face.

You cannot deal in doctrine because it is not consistent or true to some degree in every Christian faith I am familiar with.

Fling some out here - let's just see if I can deal with it or not.

[wita]

I don’t recall any doctrinal discussions as all of your come backs have been from the viewpoint that you and the so called Christian world have it right and the LDS are categorically wrong. Not really a place to begin a rational discussion.

Speaking of discussion, I am in Idaho at the moment visiting son and grandson and due to depart for South Dakota this morning so my priorities for the next two days will be on the drive. It will be awhile before I am able to resume a discussion.

As the time of the return of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob draws ever closer it is wisdom to invite discussion on the entire spectrum of doctrine that the world has access to. Focus entirely on the Bible would be to ignore the plethora of information available to all seekers of truth.

Bible only focus is to deny that God speaks today as he did in days of old and would be totally inconsistent with his ways as we presently know and understand them from books of the past.

[Elsie]

I don’t recall any doctrinal discussions as all of your come backs have been from the viewpoint that you and the so called Christian world have it right and the LDS are categorically wrong. Not really a place to begin a rational discussion.

You just might be onto something here!

---

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed:

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer).  

 

---

Questions put to Joseph Smith:

"'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness."

 http://www.boap.org/LDS/Joseph-Smith/Teachings/T3.html  

 

 

"for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12).

 

 

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"

 http://www.boap.org/LDS/Joseph-Smith/Teachings/T3.html  

 

 

---

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly:

"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses  

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 

"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 

"And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses 

 

 

 

 

---

Orson Pratt also said:

"This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , Section 18, page 44);

"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 

---

 

President John Taylor stated:

"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." 

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." ( 

 

---

 

James Talmage said:

"A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, 

 

---

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said:

"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, 

"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, 

 

---

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear:

"Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, 

"a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, 

"virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, 

"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, 

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said:

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon"  "various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom" at DuckDuckGo

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated:

"the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , 

 

[Elsie]

Focus entirely on the Bible would be to ignore the plethora of information available to all seekers of truth.

To focus only upon approved faith building material, approved by SLC, kinda puts a crimp into a fervent Mormon from getting at the truth, wouldn't you say?

---

[Elsie]

Focus entirely on the Bible would be to ignore the plethora of information available to all seekers of truth.

Failing to address the differences in early Mormon writings and current ones makes it a bit hard for a true Mormon to understand his chosen religion of today.

[wita]

Of course I read 195.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ has been on the earth since the time of Adam. Christ was prophesied from the beginning to come in the meridian of time to provide the means for our return to the presence of God which Adam’s transgression had made impossible. We could not provide the infinite sinless sacrifice to pay the debt. Only the chosen Christ could provide the atonement.

So in reality the fourth century issue is moot as the Gospel itself as available from oh, 600 years before Christ’s coming was already corrupted, and despite the appearance of Christ, he and is doctrine were generally rejected. Hence one reason peoples mentioned in the Book of Mormon 600 B.C. were inspired to travel to this continent for their religious freedom so to speak.

They too, as humans often do, ultimately failed to benefit after their thousand years here and a visit from the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. His words to them are found in Third Nephi and mirror those spoken to Judah in Palestine. After the visit of Christ in America, those who were visited lived almost a perfect life for three hundred years and then apostacy and sin again corrupted their lives.

Fortunately the Book of Mormon was written specifically for our day so that we might avoid what they went through.

[Cronos]

wita To wit: Scripture was rewritten, changed through the first four centuries after Christ’s death.

Nope - we have parchments from multiple areas across the 1st and 2nd centuries - scripture was definitely not "rewritten", leave alone "changed" through the first 4 centuries - otherwise we would find discrepencies between documents from different regions. And we don't.

[Cronos]

wita The Gospel of Jesus Christ has been on the earth since the time of Adam.

Err.. nope - the Gospel is from 30AD. What are you on about?

the Gospel itself as available from oh, 600 years before Christ’s coming - no, the Gospel didn't predate Christ's incarnation. This is clear from any historical or biblical view

peoples mentioned in the Book of Mormon 600 B.C. were inspired to travel to this continent for their religious freedom so to speak. -- there is ZERO historical, genetic, linguistic or archaeological evidence for ANY Semitic presence in the Americas before Columbus

Let me repeat - NONE

[Z28.310]

The generations of Noah, from Adam to Noah, as documented in Genesis 5 along with (the meaning of each name);

Adam (man)
Seth (appointed)
Enosh (mortal)
Kenan (sorrow)
Mahalalel (blessed God)
Jared (shall come down)
Enoch (commencing, teaching)
Methuselah (his death shall bring)
Lamech (despairing)
Noah (rest, comfort)

Let’s put it together for a complete the sentence:

(Man),(appointed) (mortal) (sorrow), [but][the] (blessed God) (shall come down) (commencing, teaching) [that] (his death shall bring) [to the] (despairing) (rest, comfort).

I’d say that the gospel has been foretold since Genesis 5.

Note; the flood came the year that Methuselah died.

As for those who never heard the gospel;
“For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,fn in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse” Romans 1:19,20

The Creator stands out as completely unique from the creation and every person is intuitively given this knowledge, so there is no excuse “I didn’t know”

[Cronos]

Your translations don’t hold up

Methuselah translates as “”one who was sent” or “man of the dart.”” NOT as “his death shall bring”

Similarly Lamech is not despairing but “The name Lamech, of Hebrew origin, typically means “powerful” or “robust”. “

and Kenan is not “sorrow” - The Hebrew name Kenan (קֵינָן) means “acquire” or “to take possession”.

[Z28.310]

Okay

[Cronos]

though, where did you get those translations from?

[Z28.310]

Okay

[wita]

Let me repeat - NONE

Well, I’d be inclined to disagree.

I’m quite certain the Old Testament stands in disagreement.

Moses spoke to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, face to face, so Moses knew.

Apparently there is a question in your mind as to just who the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is and why his prophets have been proclaiming the coming of the Redeemer since time began.

Err.. nope - the Gospel is from 30AD. What are you on about?

There you have it. Definitive proof.

[Elsie]

Only the chosen Christ could provide the atonement.

Poor Satan thought that he should have chosen. LDS teaching.

[Elsie]

Well, I’d be inclined to disagree.

Based on what evidence?

 

 

I’m quite certain the Old Testament stands in disagreement.

Based on what evidence?

 

 

There you have it. Definitive proof.

WHUT??

[Fuzz]

‘ It’s hard to die and not believe you’re dead.’

Hard?

It would be impossible.