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The Tytler Cycle Suggests A Democracy Only Lasts 200 Years
Bear State Books ^ | 1776 | Alexander Fraser Tytler

Posted on 07/04/2024 8:48:28 AM PDT by patriot torch

“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

While Alexander Fraser Tytler is often credited with these words, he also stated the following:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury.“

If only our government were actually governed as a Constitutional Republic we would not find ourselves in the shape we are today. But I digress.


TOPICS: Education; History; Reference
KEYWORDS: communisttorch; democracy; fakestatistics; republic; tytler
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Happy Fourth of July
1 posted on 07/04/2024 8:48:28 AM PDT by patriot torch
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To: patriot torch

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”

The quote, from a post-apocalyptic novel by the author G. Michael Hopf, sums up a stunningly pervasive cyclical vision of history.


2 posted on 07/04/2024 8:52:35 AM PDT by Tom Tetroxide
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To: patriot torch

Even so, a Constitutional Republic, requires its constituents to be an intelligent lot. We’ve diluted the mix so to say. That’s not helping.


3 posted on 07/04/2024 8:56:02 AM PDT by CodeJockey (I'd like to change the world, but they won't give me the source code.)
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To: CodeJockey

Yeah, that and we allowed the Gov to “educate” us.

Probably the worst decision ever made by the American people.


4 posted on 07/04/2024 8:58:33 AM PDT by Sarcazmo (I live by the Golden Rule. As applied by others; I'm not selfish.)
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To: CodeJockey

exactly, which is why the right to vote was heavily restricted at first.


5 posted on 07/04/2024 9:03:00 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009
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To: TexasFreeper2009

What happens after Trump leaves this earth? For some it can’t happen soon enough. Then there are those deciding voters that get hypnotized by the soothing words of the Kenyan POTUS as well as BJ. There aren’t enough Hillary’s and John Kerry’s out there to expose their true colors.

I’m thankful to our nations blacks. Think when a defiant Muhammed Ali said “No North Vietnamese ever called me a ni**er!” He helped make America live up to it’s ideals as a nation. It’s an ongoing process and we need to stay on the right track. It’s still our best hope.


6 posted on 07/04/2024 9:11:25 AM PDT by DIRTYSECRET
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To: patriot torch

That’s OK, we are a Constitutional Republic, thank goodness.


7 posted on 07/04/2024 9:16:33 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (Are you ready for Black Lives MAGA? It's coming.)
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To: DIRTYSECRET

We gave up the Panama Canal while the Chicoms keep Tibet and Russia holds on to the Sakalin islands. The Brits left Fiji with a majority Indian population. Tahatians hate the French while locals in New Caledonia riot. These things are going on and something tells me we can be ahead of the curve over other nations. There were benefits to colonialism the leftists and locals will never acknowledge. We can’t give our country back to the American Indians and I’d hate to be an aboriginie in Australia. It’s not just us. Its the west that needs to get to work and Trump’s the guy to do it and he’ll be 80 soon. To think that some hope he won’t make it.


8 posted on 07/04/2024 9:20:51 AM PDT by DIRTYSECRET
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To: patriot torch

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage. — Alexander Fraser Tytler


9 posted on 07/04/2024 9:23:42 AM PDT by motor_racer ("Show me the man and I'll show you the crime" - Lavrentiy Beria, J. Stalin Deputy Premier)
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To: CodeJockey

No where in the constitution is democracy mentioned. I wish they would quit misleading the population.


10 posted on 07/04/2024 9:25:25 AM PDT by DownInFlames (P)
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To: patriot torch
"...The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years....

Until you show me your spreadsheet with relevant names and dates, I'm going to call this a 100% manufactured statistic.

Prove me wrong.

11 posted on 07/04/2024 9:26:30 AM PDT by Paal Gulli
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To: patriot torch
"...The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years...."

And let's not forget that "greatest" is an entirely subjective term (AKA, a "weasel word"), which means the basic concept is not empirically quantifiable and therefore not testable.

Yet the author claims to have quantified it.

12 posted on 07/04/2024 9:29:55 AM PDT by Paal Gulli
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To: TexasFreeper2009
exactly, which is why the right to vote was heavily restricted at first.

Starship Trooper's Political System could work in the U.S. The time to do it was after WWII. You can't vote unless you're a citizen. To become a citizen, you have to serve in the military. Everyone else gets to live as a civilian. But you won't be able to vote. Many of us will be fine with that.

13 posted on 07/04/2024 9:30:16 AM PDT by MinorityRepublican
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To: patriot torch

It may be more of a downward spiral than a “cycle”. It’s not like the Roman empire bounced back.


14 posted on 07/04/2024 9:34:13 AM PDT by The Duke (Not without incident.)
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To: patriot torch

“A republic, if you can keep it.”

Benjamin Franklin’s response to Elizabeth Willing Powel’s question: “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”


15 posted on 07/04/2024 9:34:24 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you. )
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To: patriot torch; Sarcazmo; Tom Tetroxide; DIRTYSECRET; SaxxonWoods; motor_racer; ...

What a garbage article.

First, “ It’s not actually known if Alexander Tytler penned these words”.

Well, then, why continue? This is no different than the MSM making up stuff Trump said and running with it.

Second, if you can ignore #1, “If he did say or write these words, we could summarize Tytler’s beliefs in the natural progress of democracy, ‘A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury.’ “

Guess what? Any screed on democracy usually is greeted by FReepers reminding us correctly that America is NOT a democracy. As such, the alleged quote from the alleged Tyler is not applicable to America.

Third, we are past the 200 year mark. Game, set, match.

And yet, here we are, on the 4th of July, looking at fear pr0n attributable speculatively to some Scotsman about a form of government not applicable to America past the Expiration Date who, by most accounts, was talking about Roman and Hellenic democracy.

But it gets clicks for Bear State Books.


16 posted on 07/04/2024 9:37:16 AM PDT by DoodleBob (Gravity's waiting period is about 9.8 m/s²)
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To: DownInFlames
"No where in the constitution is democracy mentioned....

But democratic processes are enshrined within it. Any government that employs democratic processes also can be termed "democratic." The US is also a "representative democracy."

17 posted on 07/04/2024 9:46:21 AM PDT by Paal Gulli
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To: DoodleBob

“then, why continue?”

‘cause maybe he did? Consider it a thought experiment.

“alleged Tyler is not applicable to America.”

There again, maybe it is. That’s what we’re discussing.

“Third, we are past the 200 year mark.”

Meh, maybe he was estimating.

“And yet, here we are,”.... discussing political theory in this great country as we are allowed to do.... even without getting Doodles approval first.

There, finished it for you.

You are certainly an authoritarian son of a gun, that’s for sure. Full o’ piss and vinegar.


18 posted on 07/04/2024 11:53:11 AM PDT by Sarcazmo (I live by the Golden Rule. As applied by others; I'm not selfish.)
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To: Paal Gulli

So tell us what really has your panties in a bunch. Is it the fact that this post calls out those who are on the taxpayers dole? As you defend your “democracy” and your entitlements, this nation is going broke!.


19 posted on 07/04/2024 12:01:12 PM PDT by patriot torch (..)
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To: Sarcazmo

Kudos!!!!


20 posted on 07/04/2024 12:02:17 PM PDT by patriot torch (..)
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