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VANITY: The Subtle Ins and Outs of the 25th Amendment
Self | 6/30/2024 | Scouter

Posted on 06/30/2024 3:59:01 PM PDT by scouter

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I Can't say I'm predicting this, but I'm thinking it may be the game plan.

The Democrats who are actually running the country (Obama's crew?) will use carrots and sticks to get Biden to withdraw. Carrots would be a pardon for Hunter, dropping all further charges against him, an "honorable" departure, a pleasant retirement, and silence on his family's corruption. Sticks would be the opposite. Kamala would be his replacement for several reasons. First, she will be easy to control. Second, bypassing her would disaffect all their major constituencies. Third, she would have access to all the money Biden has raised. Anyone else would have to start raising funds from scratch. Fourth, they need her to be on board with the plan.

If Jill refuses to play ball, they will make life very difficult for her. For about a week, maybe two. They'll let it be known to all WH staff that Joe is gone and Jill just needs to receive the message and they are to ignore any instructions she gives, and that if they don't play along, their careers will be over. If that doesn't work then they'll invoke the 25th Amendment, and Kamala will become Acting President, giving her some degree of gravitas and tapping into the honeymoon phase voters usually grant to someone who is "forced" to take over in "emergency" situations.

Another option would be if Joe-Jill agrees to resign. If Joe-Jill gets on board they can frame it as passing the torch on to the next generation, with Kamala having gained the necessary experience over the last 3 1/2 years. If Joe-Jill decides to bow out now, and resign, he can give a Reaganesque goodbye speech, resign for the good of the country, and Kamala can have several months of actually being president, instead of just Acting President, before the election and before her own term begins. Joe-Jill will go down in history as preparing the country for the first woman president, and actually making it happen. Barack will gin up all the enthusiasm they’ll need to get her elected, and he'll still be in control. If Joe-Jill agrees to this, it has the added benefit of not putting her in the position of having betrayed Joe-Jill.

They recognize that this is risky, but I think they may do it because they think it is the only hand they have to play. If so, all of this will happen before the convention so they can have the excitement and celebration kick-off of the new campaign at the convention.

1 posted on 06/30/2024 3:59:01 PM PDT by scouter
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To: scouter
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/amendment-25/
2 posted on 06/30/2024 4:00:00 PM PDT by scouter (As for me and my household... We will serve the LORD.)
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To: scouter

I see the 25th as a convoluted and messy option. Not good for Dems, Repubs and the country.


3 posted on 06/30/2024 4:02:54 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (A truth that’s told with bad intent, Beats all the lies you can invent ~ Wm. Blake)
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To: scouter

To make it even more interesting, cabinet members serve at the pleasure of the president. He can fire them at any time.

So if a president gets a hint that a 25A action might be on the way, he could immediately fire the all cabinet members whom he perceives to be disloyal. Then what?

I suppose the only remedy then would be impeachment.


4 posted on 06/30/2024 4:04:43 PM PDT by Leaning Right (The steal is real.)
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To: scouter
The 25th Amendment was never designed for the removal of a president against his will due to incompetence or incapacity. It is designed to be used in the event of a medical emergency or wartime scenario where the president is temporarily incapacitated or out of contact.
5 posted on 06/30/2024 4:04:44 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (“Ain't it funny how the night moves … when you just don't seem to have as much to lose.”)
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To: scouter
The 25th Amendment does not "remove" the President. The President continues to be President, and the Vice President continues to be Vice President.

You didn't read the 25th Amendment. When the VP and a majority of "principal officers" formally inform Congress that the president is unable to discharge the duties of his office, "the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

After formal notification, Congress has 21 days to vote to remove the president from office (two-thirds majority required in both House and Senate).

https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/amendments/amendment-xxv

6 posted on 06/30/2024 4:05:56 PM PDT by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: Leaning Right
The 25th Amendment requires a two-thirds vote in both Houses of Congress.

Impeachment and removal only requires a simple majority in the House and a two-thirds vote in the Senate.

It’s EASIER to remove a President through impeachment and conviction than through some kind of bizarre 25th Amendment process.

7 posted on 06/30/2024 4:07:02 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (“Ain't it funny how the night moves … when you just don't seem to have as much to lose.”)
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To: Alberta's Child

In addition—though the OP does not want to talk about it—the 25th amendment had a hidden assumption of at least minimal competence and organizational skills of the VP since as a practical matter they would be driving the entire process.


8 posted on 06/30/2024 4:08:55 PM PDT by cgbg ("Our democracy" = Their Kleptocracy)
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To: Alberta's Child

On the contrary, Section 4 was designed precisely for that purpose. In fact, it is purposefully ambiguous by not specifying any medical, legal, or even political criteria for determining he is unable to discharge his powers and duties.


9 posted on 06/30/2024 4:11:57 PM PDT by scouter (As for me and my household... We will serve the LORD.)
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To: Leaning Right

You’re absolutely right. That’s one of its deficiencies. Or is it? Is that a bug or a feature?


10 posted on 06/30/2024 4:12:41 PM PDT by scouter (As for me and my household... We will serve the LORD.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Except that impeachment is supposed to involve “high crimes and misdemeanors “, not simple incapacitation or mental decline.


11 posted on 06/30/2024 4:13:16 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Either you will rule. Or you will be ruled. There is no other choice.)
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To: Alberta's Child

> It’s EASIER to remove a President through impeachment and conviction than through some kind of bizarre 25th Amendment process. <

Yes. Odd, huh?

But the 25A does have one advantage. It can *temporarily* remove a president rather quickly. If the VP and a majority of the cabinet agree, the president is out and the VP is the acting president. Congress isn’t even involved.

But if the ousted president then objects, Congress does get involved. And it becomes a real mess. Sometimes I think the 25A was not thought through very well.


12 posted on 06/30/2024 4:13:35 PM PDT by Leaning Right (The steal is real.)
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To: Alberta's Child
The 25th Amendment was never designed for the removal of a president against his will due to incompetence or incapacity.

The 25th Amendment was written for exactly that purpose: to remove a president against his will for incompetence or incapacity. This is why the 25th Amendment set the bar so high for a president's removal (two-thirds of both the House and Senate must approve).

The 25th Amendment was passed, in part, because of Woodrow Wilson's stroke, which left him totally incapacitated for the last two years of his second term.

13 posted on 06/30/2024 4:13:57 PM PDT by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: Right_Wing_Madman
You didn't read the 25th Amendment. When the VP and a majority of "principal officers" formally inform Congress that the president is unable to discharge the duties of his office, "the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

After formal notification, Congress has 21 days to vote to remove the president from office (two-thirds majority required in both House and Senate).

Read it again carefully. He still remains President, but may not discharge the powers and duties. Acting President is not President. Many Vice Presidents have already served as Acting President for short periods of time, able to discharge the powers and duties of the Presidency, but they were not actually President. Even Kamala Harris has done this when Biden was under anesthesia. She is the first woman to have done so, but she is not the first woman President. Even the text of the Amendment continues to refer to the Vice President as Vice President, and the President as President.

Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

14 posted on 06/30/2024 4:17:29 PM PDT by scouter (As for me and my household... We will serve the LORD.)
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To: Alberta's Child
The 25th Amendment requires a two-thirds vote in both Houses of Congress.

No, that's not true. Read it. It only requires two-thirds vote in both Houses of Congress if the President contests it, AND the Vice President and the Cabinet send another letter within 4 days to Congress saying "no, really, he can't do the job."

15 posted on 06/30/2024 4:20:44 PM PDT by scouter (As for me and my household... We will serve the LORD.)
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To: Alberta's Child

So that would mean it could be used between 4pm and 10 am


16 posted on 06/30/2024 4:28:36 PM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: Responsibility2nd

It really only makes sense in case where the President had a stroke and literally could not function at all.


17 posted on 06/30/2024 4:35:58 PM PDT by Tipllub
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If Mike Johnson doesn’t at least superficially pursue the 25th, he could be justifiably accused of abdication.


18 posted on 06/30/2024 4:36:13 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist! )
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To: scouter

I don’t believe it’ll come down to the 25th being invoked, in a few weeks it will be announced that Joe has died, in bed with Jill, and the last words his broken-hearted wife heard were, “It’s Trump’s fault”.


19 posted on 06/30/2024 4:37:57 PM PDT by orlop9
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To: Right_Wing_Madman
(two-thirds majority required in both House and Senate).

Virtually impossible for a political tactic...absent stroke or heart attack a lot of Ds would not vote to remove a Prez of their party.

20 posted on 06/30/2024 4:38:29 PM PDT by chiller (Davey Crockett said: "Be sure you're right. Then go ahead'. I'll go ahead.)
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